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Post by sawb on Dec 30, 2014 21:14:33 GMT
On the weekend of Saturday 17th and Sunday 18th January, there are the following SSR part closures:
Circle line: no service between Edgware Road and Tower Hill via Kings Cross
Hammersmith & City line: no service between Baker Street and Barking
Metropolitan line: no service between Baker Street and Aldgate
My question is, how will Circle line trains terminate and reverse at Tower Hill without causing meltdown to the District line as well?
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Post by melikepie on Dec 30, 2014 21:49:46 GMT
I don't see how it would cause meltdown with the District. There are 3 platforms there. One platform for terminating 6tph. I'm sure it could handle 12tph.
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Post by greatkingrat on Dec 30, 2014 22:04:18 GMT
The full District line is open, so I assume the Circle will terminate in the bay platform, and the Districts that would normally terminate there will either use Mansion House instead, or continue to Barking to make up for the lack of H&C trains.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Dec 30, 2014 22:14:36 GMT
Circle Line trains will operate from Edgware Road-Barking via Victoria.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2014 22:16:21 GMT
Circle Line trains will operate from Edgware Road-Barking via Victoria. Ooooh, that's fun - would you happen to know how they'll be described? |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Dec 30, 2014 22:24:07 GMT
Ooooh, that's fun - would you happen to know how they'll be described? S7 code "542 Barking I/R District from Edgware Road" is available. |
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Post by superteacher on Dec 30, 2014 23:45:49 GMT
But what will be displayed on the train when it leaves Edgware Road? Displaying "Barking" would lead to obvious confusion!
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Post by Dstock7080 on Dec 31, 2014 8:26:34 GMT
But what will be displayed on the train when it leaves Edgware Road? Displaying "Barking" would lead to obvious confusion! scrolling: 'Barking via Victoria' then 'Barking via Embankment' " All trains running in passenger service between Edgware Road and Barking Sidings via Victoria should be described as follows:-
Eastbound (IR)
Trains must depart Edgware Road labelled as ‘Circle Line’ to Gloucester Road, the destination must be changed at Gloucester Road to read ‘Barking’.
The platform describers will show ‘Circle Line’ from Edgware Road to Mansion House, then ‘Barking’ to Barking.
Westbound (OR)
Trains must depart Barking labelled as ‘Circle Line’ to Edgware Road.
The platform describers will show ‘Special’ from Barking to Mansion House, then ‘Circle Line’ to Edgware Road.
All other trains should be described according to their destination." |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Dec 31, 2014 10:44:02 GMT
"Trains must depart Barking labelled as ‘Circle Line’ to Edgware Road"
That's ambiguous though - wouldn't it be better to label them as, e.g Tower Hill?
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Post by superteacher on Dec 31, 2014 12:08:19 GMT
"Trains must depart Barking labelled as ‘Circle Line’ to Edgware Road" That's ambiguous though - wouldn't it be better to label them as, e.g Tower Hill? Agreed. If they are going to the south side of the Circle, they should be labelled as a District line service at least as far as Tower Hill. EDIT: the modern day passenger cannot seem to cope with any type of working which differs from what they perceive to be the norm. Yesterday's engineering work around the system is a case in point. At Hammersmith on the eastbound, Picc trains were leaving from both platforms because some trains had run over the local lines to cover for the District line. It amazed me how many passengers wouldn't board the Picc trains in what is normally the District platform, just because the train isn't in the normal platform. At North Actom on the eastbound, some passengers refuse to board eastbound trains leaving from the middle platform. Years ago, they used to run District trains around the north side of the circle on Sunday. Sometimes, a Circle line train was diverted to the Met main. Some bus routes had different routes, depending on the time of day. But people seemed to cope back then by reading destination displays - highly technical, I know! Nowadays, even with DVA's, DMI's, public address systems etc, people still end up being on the wrong train, or stay sitting on a train which has terminated until turfed off. There is just an expectation with a lot of people that they should be able to get somewhere without any engagement of their brain, eyes or ears. During the planned engineering work yesterday, there were people complaining about not knowing, even when there was a large poster next to them with all the details which, if they'd bothered to read, would have told them what they needed to know. |
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Post by uzairjubilee on Dec 31, 2014 13:07:36 GMT
I can remember when there was a similar closure before S Stock was in service. IIRC, IR Circle line trains were being described as normal until Gloucester Road and the driver would then give an announcement along the lines of "This is train is now being diverted to Barking". I think it probably is better for trains - when departing Edgware Road IR - to be described as Circle line to Tower Hill, then at Monument an announcement could be made saying the train has been extended to Barking. If the platform describers can be consistent with that then great!
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Post by superteacher on Dec 31, 2014 13:50:38 GMT
Another issue with these type of special services is that the destination displayed is not actually on the line e.g. Barking via Victoria as a Circle line service when Barking isn't a Circle line station.
S stock inter working between lines will throw up numerous possibilities similar to the above.
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Post by uzairjubilee on Dec 31, 2014 14:03:04 GMT
Another issue with these type of special services is that the destination displayed is not actually on the line e.g. Barking via Victoria as a Circle line service when Barking isn't a Circle line station. S stock inter working between lines will throw up numerous possibilities similar to the above. True, but imagine the amount of confusion there would be amongst passengers if they saw a Circle line train with the destination 'Barking'. |
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Post by superteacher on Dec 31, 2014 14:42:27 GMT
Another issue with these type of special services is that the destination displayed is not actually on the line e.g. Barking via Victoria as a Circle line service when Barking isn't a Circle line station. S stock inter working between lines will throw up numerous possibilities similar to the above. True, but imagine the amount of confusion there would be amongst passengers if they saw a Circle line train with the destination 'Barking'. Which was the point I was trying to make! Would be quite entertaining to see the confusion though! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2014 15:23:17 GMT
Wonder how many wrong signals get selected especially at Aldgate
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Post by Harsig on Dec 31, 2014 15:37:34 GMT
Wonder how many wrong signals get selected especially at Aldgate None, obviously. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Dec 31, 2014 18:56:34 GMT
imagine the amount of confusion there would be amongst passengers if they saw a Circle line train with the destination 'Barking'. But they wouldn't know it was a Circle Line train - after Gloucester Road they'd think it was a District if it said Barking. (Even before - although they might think it was going to turn "sharp left" at Earls Court!) |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2014 19:03:21 GMT
But the S7s have the line on the front. And the DVA announces the line all the way along, too.
I'm not 100% sure telling people it's only going as far as Gloucester Road is the ideal solution, because the Circle line has genuinely been terminating at Gloucester Road recently and it might cause at least some people to go out of their way, believing an alternative route would be necessary, when - in fact - the "Gloucester Road" train would do. Would not, say, Tower Hill be better? But then what do I know?
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Post by motorman on Jan 1, 2015 20:35:05 GMT
Compared to a few years ago passengers are bombarded with information these days both from announcements and technology. I wonder if the ability to think for themselves and use basic common sence has been removed. I personally find continual announcements irritating and I tend to tune out and instead use my powers of observation (i.e. eyes) and years of travelling experience to find my way around, especially when things don't go quite to plan.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jan 18, 2015 14:07:55 GMT
diamondgeezer.blogspot.co.uk/Apparent confusion on the south side of the Circle, and round to Edgware Road, by inconsistent advertising of the unusual Barking - Victoria - Edgware Road service this weekend. Some very pithy comments about ensuring people paying for the service taking priority over people getting the service they've paid for. Surely there should be staff on the platforms at ERD to help lost passengers. The least confusing way to advertise it would be to leave Barking as a District Line to Gloucester Road, until it gets to Tower Hill where it becomes a Circle, and on the way back reverting to being called a District from Gloucester Road onwards. t fit for purpose If the DMIs and automated announcements can't cope with that, they are not fit for purpose
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Post by wimblephil on Jan 18, 2015 15:32:17 GMT
Perhaps different operators were doing different things?
In slight contrast to what was written in that blog, I boarded a train at Edgware Road which was in the usual 'Circle via Victoria' platform and the train was described as such. At Gloucester Road the automated 'destination of this train has changed' was announced and the train ran as a District to Barking from there. That seemed the most sensible way to do it! I presumed the same would have occurred in the opposite direction at Tower Hill but I never travelled the reverse journey so I don't know!
Later in the day I entered Bayswater station and there were signs and announcements every so-often stating something along the lines of 'for circle line stations via Victoria and Tower Hill, please take the Barking train'. The next train to arrive was a Wimbledon service which I boarded, so I didn't get to see if the next via Victoria train was in fact described as Barking at this point, rather than as a Circle as had been my experience earlier that day!
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Post by su31 on Jan 19, 2015 0:23:24 GMT
This morning I made a point of catching one of the 'Circle' line trains supposedly to Barking. This was from St James's Park at approximately 07:20. The DMI on the platform indicated the usual Circle via Liverpool St, and when the train arrived, it was an S7 labelled as a District line to Barking and remained that way all the way to Barking. Was looking forward to hearing the Circle line to Barking announcements too!
Incidentally, the DVA / DMI didn't indicate the usual interchange at Tower Hill for the Circle line or at Aldgate East for the H&C towards King's Cross either.
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Post by uzairjubilee on Jan 19, 2015 20:25:38 GMT
Didn't know the trains would have to use a District line Barking destination code. The only thing I can think of is that the Circle line train show Tower Hill as its destination, then be turned off at Tower Hill? However manual announcements would then have to be made from here to Barking which isn't really a great option...
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Post by Chris M on Jan 19, 2015 22:34:47 GMT
Surely it could switch to a H&C destination code at Aldgate East, meaning manual anouncements only at Tower Hill?
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Post by wimblephil on Jan 20, 2015 16:07:57 GMT
They need to just combine the Hammersmith&City and Circle lines under a new name and one colour, and operate it as one line with two branches...! I'm pretty sure that's how they actually run them anyway...?
I ended up catching a 'Circle' line train from West Ham on the Sunday. There were a few puzzled faces. The platform indicators were displaying as H&C via Kings Cross, which won't have helped some!
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