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Post by Tomcakes on Feb 4, 2014 19:56:21 GMT
I have noticed recently that many ticket offices no longer open for their stated times, and are closed when the staff take tea breaks etc. Apparently at some stations there is no cover procedure for staff off sick or even on annual leave! You mean the legally required 30 minute meal reliefs or PNRs, station staff don't get tea breaks. Every station group has a pool of reserve staff to cover sickness or annual leave. I should make it clear, I do not begrudge the staff their tea break (whether you call it a meal relief or a PNR or whatever - time to to themselves to do what they please to which they are entitled). However, there ought to be staffing in place to cover for this. What use is advertising a facility as being open when it may close for 30 minutes during this time? I can only speak anecdotally but it appears that those reserve staff are insufficient or not available. The ticket offices at the three stations I frequently used are often closed when they are supposed to be open with a board stating "staff shortages", and at another one I visit from time to time I was once told that if the ticket assistant (or whatever the grade is) books annual leave, the ticket office remains closed for that day, as they will not send anyone down to cover. Still waiting to hear where I'll be able to buy my season ticket with a cheque and cash in my refund vouchers? (I assume/hope that a shortage of staff, as we shall see tomorrow, doesn't allow LU to wriggle out of paying refunds to all affected passengers). |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2014 20:02:53 GMT
H-m-m, on the Bakerloo delays "due to strike action" started around 6.30pm - isn't that a bit early?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2014 20:25:36 GMT
Guardian Article"Around 450 staff members to date have expressed an interest in applying for voluntary redundancy. A total of 953 jobs will go, although 200 people could be redeployed to working on the planned 24-hour weekend tube services." If the article is believed to be factual rather than biased, then it would seem that RMT are striking over circa 300 jobs and a change in conditions. Seems like a belligerent Power Play in political terms by Mr Crow.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Feb 4, 2014 22:08:16 GMT
H-m-m, on the Bakerloo delays "due to strike action" started around 6.30pm - isn't that a bit early? Interestingly (or not) the delays on the Bakerloo are "due to strike action", but the other disruption is "due to staff shortages" (except the District where there was a presumably unrelated obstruction on the track earlier that is taking all the blame). |
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Post by rheostar on Feb 4, 2014 22:12:24 GMT
Guardian Article"Around 450 staff members to date have expressed an interest in applying for voluntary redundancy. A total of 953 jobs will go, although 200 people could be redeployed to working on the planned 24-hour weekend tube services." If the article is believed to be factual rather than biased, then it would seem that RMT are striking over circa 300 jobs and a change in conditions. Seems like a belligerent Power Play in political terms by Mr Crow. There's been around 1000 people ask for VS quotes with 450 officially putting in a request. The biggest fear amongst the 450 is that there won't be enough allowed to go. |
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Post by Tubeboy on Feb 4, 2014 22:15:55 GMT
The London Underground Control Centre originally put out the delays messages as being due to strike action, this was then changed to staff shortages, the radio message being said in a very srcastic tone, the sender clealy not aggreeing with the new wording. No doubt, orders came from on high.
LU have been lying to the public and its own staff throughout this dispute, and still cant tell the truth.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2014 22:16:13 GMT
Any reason why the DLR couldn't run a Stratford-Tower Gateway service? Send all Beckton trains to Canary Wharf all day and to Lewisham in peck times and Stratford ones to Tower Gateway to keep a flow to the City other then NR and 25 from Stratford? The Central and H&C will not be runing to the city and the District will be running a limited service
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2014 22:18:03 GMT
Guardian Article"Around 450 staff members to date have expressed an interest in applying for voluntary redundancy. A total of 953 jobs will go, although 200 people could be redeployed to working on the planned 24-hour weekend tube services." If the article is believed to be factual rather than biased, then it would seem that RMT are striking over circa 300 jobs and a change in conditions. Seems like a belligerent Power Play in political terms by Mr Crow. There's been around 1000 people ask for VS quotes with 450 officially putting in a request. The biggest fear amongst the 450 is that there won't be enough allowed to go. If I've understood your post correctly, more than 450 people want to take the redundancy packages. |
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Post by bicbasher on Feb 4, 2014 22:18:10 GMT
Canada Water is on the closed list. This will make Shadwell busier than normal with ELL passengers changing for Canary Wharf on the DLR.
The Jubilee is already out between Waterloo and Stanmore.
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Post by trt on Feb 4, 2014 22:19:27 GMT
There's been around 1000 people ask for VS quotes with 450 officially putting in a request. The biggest fear amongst the 450 is that there won't be enough allowed to go. If I've understood your post correctly, more than 450 people want to take the redundancy packages. Can't blame them given the threat to their pensions. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2014 22:30:54 GMT
West Ham Station could be closed to C2C services tomorrow guessing if this is the case the DLR will not be stoping here as well
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Feb 5, 2014 0:07:07 GMT
Any reason why the DLR couldn't run a Stratford-Tower Gateway service? There is no physical reason to prevent such a service running. Indeed my first ever ride on a B2007 stock in service was on a Bank-Stratford service. I think that was due to construction of the Delta Junction flyunder closing the Westferry-WIQ route though. There are other factors at play though that might stop such a service - a timetable would need to be written in advance and loaded onto the signalling computer. Canary Wharf to Stratford is publicised as a 12 minute journey, while it is only 9 minutes to Tower Gateway so a simple 1:1 swap isn't possible and the single line sections to Stratford and single platform at Tower Gateway complicate things too. Essentially the whole timetable would need to be rewritten to avoid conflicts between Mint Street Junction and Canning Town. Staff rosters would also need to be checked for compatibility. All this could be done, but it will take time to do. How much time I don't know, but I'd be surprised if it couldn't be done for next week's strikes (if it can't be for the current ones) - if there is the will. However, if there are union agreements about short notice changes to schedules (I don't know) then that could scupper anything in the short term. DLR's industrial relations aren't tip-top at the moment and as a significant portion of DLR PSAs are in the RMT they wont be falling over themselves to get LU out of a hole. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2014 1:14:16 GMT
Guardian Article"Around 450 staff members to date have expressed an interest in applying for voluntary redundancy. A total of 953 jobs will go, although 200 people could be redeployed to working on the planned 24-hour weekend tube services." If the article is believed to be factual rather than biased, then it would seem that RMT are striking over circa 300 jobs and a change in conditions. Seems like a belligerent Power Play in political terms by Mr Crow. 38 GSMs will become 97 AM-Ss 190 DSMs will disappear 1771 SSs will become 1001 CSMs 1450 SAMFs/SACRs will become 666 CSSs 2224 CSAs will become 2500 CSA1s 486 CSA2s will be created from nothing. |
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Ben
fotopic... whats that?
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Post by Ben on Feb 5, 2014 6:52:59 GMT
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Post by rheostar on Feb 5, 2014 8:30:50 GMT
If I've understood your post correctly, more than 450 people want to take the redundancy packages. Can't blame them given the threat to their pensions. As I'm of a certain age, I'm very interested in our pension scheme and from what I've seen and read there's no threat to our pensions. The 450 that want to go is only from the station grades. If VS were opened up to all grades there'd be double that number, if not more. We've all been playing with the Voluntary Severance calculator that's on our intranet and we've been pleasantly surprised at the figures. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2014 8:57:54 GMT
I'm not suprised at the staff interest in VS. Some years ago at another major uk employer the decision was made to reduce the workforce through VS. Individuals whom the management felt were surplus to requirements were "ring fenced" (ie encouraged to apply) but applications were open to all. About 80% of the workforce applied and they ended up having to ring fence those they needed to stay.
In my experience, if you back yourself to get another job then VS is brilliant. I've done it twice and made a substantial amount of money.
Funny why the RMT haven't mentioned the interest in the package.
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Post by Tubeboy on Feb 5, 2014 9:02:09 GMT
Wrong Rheostar! Our pensions will change, at least the station staff who are being demoted [of which I am one] My pay will drop by 8k a year, as my current grade will be abolished.My pension value will drop.
As for VS, 450 of an eligible 3450 have expressed a serious interest. VS is only really attractive if your of a certain age, early 50s, and you've done a fair few years. For everyone else, its worth a lot less.
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Post by rheostar on Feb 5, 2014 9:23:12 GMT
Tubeboy, the terms and conditions of the pension fund aren't changing. It's unfortunate that you're one of the group that's going to lose money.
This is where the unions have it all wrong. From personal experience, LU will get what they want. Unfortunately, I'm old enough to remember the unions saying there's never going to be OPO, and we all know what happened there. Flexible rostering...never going to happen. We were out on strike for a week over that one. Company Plan...never going to happen. Fit for London....
The jobs will go, technology marches on and we can't do much about it. What the unions should be saying is, "Ok, if this is what you want, this is how much it's going to cost you" and protect our salaries.
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North End
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Post by North End on Feb 5, 2014 9:34:33 GMT
Guardian Article"Around 450 staff members to date have expressed an interest in applying for voluntary redundancy. A total of 953 jobs will go, although 200 people could be redeployed to working on the planned 24-hour weekend tube services." If the article is believed to be factual rather than biased, then it would seem that RMT are striking over circa 300 jobs and a change in conditions. Seems like a belligerent Power Play in political terms by Mr Crow. There's a lot more to the dispute than has been widely reported. The main issue is that a large number of staff in the current Station Supervisor, CRA and SAMF (booking office) grades are being forcibly displaced from their current role. The idea is that GSMs will automatically become AMS, DSMs will go into a selection process where they will get either AMS or CSM. SS will similarly go into a selection process and get CSM or CSS. SAMF and SCRA will go into a selection process and get CSS or CSA. The issue is that compared to existing grades, those in the selection process effectively get either a promotion or demotion, all based on a one-day "workshop", whatever that may turn out to be. LUL used this approach with the recent 'OSP' reorganisation which involved certain management grades. I think station staff would have a little more confidence if the OSP had been seen to work well, but the fact is the OSP was a chronic disaster, creating a lot of resentment which is still festering 3 years on. Some of the grades created at the OSP have not worked out well in practice, and some of the people placed into certain roles have not generally performed well or have found themselves highly unsuited to the role they were allocated (I'm particular thinking of some of the DSMs who became DRMs or TOSMs). The issues in these grades have then rubbed off elsewhere as others see and exploit division. As others have said, VS tends to favour those in the early 50s, and only those who were considering retirement early anyway. Again thinking back to the OSP, in my business area 4 people took VS. All these people were planning to take retirement anyway - one even deferred his retirement by several months in order to secure a VS package. For younger staff or those with fewer years service, the package is not so attractive. My personal feeling is ticket office closures is the soundbite, but the issue runs far deeper than that. If LUL had announced had announced a reorganisation of numbers, but left the grades alone and promised that all staff who wanted to stay would be found a position somewhere, I think people would have been happier. Needlessly bringing all station grades into the issue has stirred up a hornets nest, and for that the blame lies solely with LUL. |
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Post by trt on Feb 5, 2014 13:02:24 GMT
North End, AslefShrugged and Tubeboy have very nicely presented the hidden underbelly of the argument. Additionally, I hear that the way the "three year pay protection" will be delivered is an attempt to sneak in under the radar lower pension payouts due to the final salary calculation. No doubt they are reserving an "opt-in to a career average pension scheme" as a negotiating tool, allowing a gradual sweep to a better-for-them pension scheme. This is EXACTLY what they did where I work, resulting in a three-year transition period before everyone's pension became a hybrid of years-in-service at FSP and years-in-service at CAP, whilst quietly sweeping away those who would have taken VS and early retirement to provide the staff reduction they were seeking.
On top of that, this is actually a quite drastic change to working practises for train and station staff and the travelling public. It's not been tested anywhere and there are no proven models for it, certainly not in a complex zone 1 interchange. As I pointed out elsewhere, there is a ticket office in the plan for the new Tottenham Court Road. Why? If this is an essential change, a done deal, then that shouldn't be in there. TCR isn't on the list as a Gateway station.
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Post by sawb on Feb 5, 2014 16:36:40 GMT
Just seen on the TfL website that Covent Garden is open, even though it's not being served by trains. Any idea why this might be?
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Post by londonstuff on Feb 5, 2014 19:09:18 GMT
Just seen on the TfL website that Covent Garden is open, even though it's not being served by trains. Any idea why this might be? I've just been past Covent Garden tube station and it was very definitely closed! |
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Rich32
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Post by Rich32 on Feb 5, 2014 19:57:48 GMT
Fascinating document you've got there Ben - world's away today in some respects, then again, not so different either. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2014 20:28:56 GMT
There's a lot more to the dispute than has been widely reported. The main issue is that a large number of staff in the current Station Supervisor, CRA and SAMF (booking office) grades are being forcibly displaced from their current role. The idea is that GSMs will automatically become AMS, DSMs will go into a selection process where they will get either AMS or CSM. SS will similarly go into a selection process and get CSM or CSS. SAMF and SCRA will go into a selection process and get CSS or CSA. The issue is that compared to existing grades, those in the selection process effectively get either a promotion or demotion, all based on a one-day "workshop", whatever that may turn out to be. LUL used this approach with the recent 'OSP' reorganisation which involved certain management grades. I think station staff would have a little more confidence if the OSP had been seen to work well, but the fact is the OSP was a chronic disaster, creating a lot of resentment which is still festering 3 years on. Some of the grades created at the OSP have not worked out well in practice, and some of the people placed into certain roles have not generally performed well or have found themselves highly unsuited to the role they were allocated (I'm particular thinking of some of the DSMs who became DRMs or TOSMs). The issues in these grades have then rubbed off elsewhere as others see and exploit division. As others have said, VS tends to favour those in the early 50s, and only those who were considering retirement early anyway. Again thinking back to the OSP, in my business area 4 people took VS. All these people were planning to take retirement anyway - one even deferred his retirement by several months in order to secure a VS package. For younger staff or those with fewer years service, the package is not so attractive. My personal feeling is ticket office closures is the soundbite, but the issue runs far deeper than that. If LUL had announced had announced a reorganisation of numbers, but left the grades alone and promised that all staff who wanted to stay would be found a position somewhere, I think people would have been happier. Needlessly bringing all station grades into the issue has stirred up a hornets nest, and for that the blame lies solely with LUL. Thanks for the info. Always good to get the other P.O.V. It does then seem that the RMT are doing their members a mis-service by not representing what's actually going on to the public. Crows insistence on comparing Bo-Jo to Hitler today makes a mockery both of Unions and the strike. Frankly if Crow takes on Bo-Jo as he's doing, his members will loose, his union will loose but he'll continue to take his >£100K salary + plus benefits whilst living in his subsidised council house and taking trips to Brazil so maybe he doesn't need to care about his professional performance that much... |
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Feb 5, 2014 21:00:57 GMT
Council housing is for everyone. That we're supposed to think there should be a priority system for it is because the majority of it was flogged off cheap as a bribe with no replacement.
**Council housing was always, is still, and should always be for everyone.**
Its not just the RMT on strike, btw. The truth of the situation is, as always, in the details, the numbers, the finer points, the history, the relevant law, etc etc. No one has the time or the attention span to listen to the whole story and underlying reasons as they would take a tombe to list and reference. But they are there, and they are real.
In as much as Boris has said himself he 'doesn't do details', it can be oh-so-roughly summarized as thus: Boris prommised no ticket office cuts to Londoners and ran with that as a pledge for re-election, denigrating Ken about it in the process. Now he's changed his mind.
TfL doesn't have a good track record with being strictly or wholey truthful. Unstaffed stations have occured in the past in the suburbs, stations have been locked up at night by outside security firms aswell. These are recorded facts. There is legitimate concern that this will become the norm through one way or another, and the safety issue is that if someone is attacked, or vandalism, or self harm, or robbery, there might not be anyone around to either challenge the action, or help the victim.
Crow, admittedly does himself no favours at times. He plays the politicians at the same level they try to play him (just look at Crow vs Dick Tracey in the assembley transport committee meetings), but sometimes people just want passion and simple words without rhetoric or jargon. At the end of the day though he's standing up for a principal which is more than many politicians have ever done - even if it doesnt transfer well at times. Crow's is an image problem, Boris' is a substance one.
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Post by melikepie on Feb 5, 2014 21:11:46 GMT
Many station closures did allow for a faster tube journey home though
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Post by Tomcakes on Feb 5, 2014 21:36:21 GMT
A contracted cleaner appeared to be performing gateline duties earlier at a local station; I wonder if this has been sanctioned appropriately?
I read that TfL are trying to wriggle out of paying refunds, saying it's a "planned closure" or "outwith their control" (as a passenger I don't care about the argument an employer has with its employees - if it annoys its employees sufficient that they don't book on for work, that's the employer's problem). Even so, many services advertised as running were not running as they were advertised.
An amazing announcement this afternoon :
"The Bakerloo, Waterloo & City and Circle lines are closed. The Jubilee line is operating a SPECIAL SERVICE, the Piccadilly line is operating a SPECIAL SERVICE, the Central line is operating a SPECIAL SERVICE, the Victoria line is operating a SPECIAL SERVICE, the Metropolitan line is operating a SPECIAL SERVICE, the Hammersmith and City line is part suspended, the District line is part suspended, the Northern line is operating with severe delays." but the real icing on the cake was the continuation... "There is a good service operating on all other London Underground lines".
Still, at least they admitted the delays - at one point the NB Northern line at Camden Town was happily reporting a good service on the line, whilst reporting the next train as being 24 minutes away!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2014 21:38:22 GMT
Council housing is for everyone. That we're supposed to think there should be a priority system for it is because the majority of it was flogged off cheap as a bribe with no replacement. **Council housing was always, is still, and should always be for everyone.** Its not just the RMT on strike, btw. The truth of the situation is, as always, in the details, the numbers, the finer points, the history, the relevant law, etc etc. No one has the time or the attention span to listen to the whole story and underlying reasons as they would take a tombe to list and reference. But they are there, and they are real. In as much as Boris has said himself he 'doesn't do details', it can be oh-so-roughly summarized as thus: Boris prommised no ticket office cuts to Londoners and ran with that as a pledge for re-election, denigrating Ken about it in the process. Now he's changed his mind. TfL doesn't have a good track record with being strictly or wholey truthful. Unstaffed stations have occured in the past in the suburbs, stations have been locked up at night by outside security firms aswell. These are recorded facts. There is legitimate concern that this will become the norm through one way or another, and the safety issue is that if someone is attacked, or vandalism, or self harm, or robbery, there might not be anyone around to either challenge the action, or help the victim. Crow, admittedly does himself no favours at times. He plays the politicians at the same level they try to play him (just look at Crow vs Dick Tracey in the assembley transport committee meetings), but sometimes people just want passion and simple words without rhetoric or jargon. At the end of the day though he's standing up for a principal which is more than many politicians have ever done - even if it doesnt transfer well at times. Crow's is an image problem, Boris' is a substance one. Council housing in principle yes, but not subsidized housing costs for those who earn in excess of £100. The reality is that someone who earns for example £12k, through their taxes ends up contributing to the cost of putting a roof over this very affluent man's head. That's not what the social state is about or has ever been about. The fact that Crow insists on employing the moral high card in every one of his interviews and negotiations but refuses to deploy the same morals in his personal life is a single example as to why he is so little trusted, why generally when he takes his Unions spats public he losses, why he does not do his Union members justice, why he will loose this round of negotiations. As you say, no one has the time to understand everything, so it's about the PR, the oration, personalities (of which the RMT's Crow is the most vocal and visible) and the ability to effectively communicate to your key stakeholders, in this case principally the traveling (and paying) public. That's why Bo-Jo's winning the argument, why Crow doesn't cut the mustard and the workers who Crow is supposed to represent will not get what they want or deserve. Crow's just not a good representative. Rant over. Now back to the transport... |
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Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
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Post by Tom on Feb 5, 2014 21:59:13 GMT
Now I'm not seeking to defend Bob Crow, but one thing I would ask, is he really that well off?
Prior to becoming a full-time RMT employee he was working on P/Way, which unless you're one of the track engineers (i.e. not on the tools), doesn't pay masses.
His only really large income will have come from taking over as the RMTs General Secretary, and that lasts as long as there isn't a challenge to his leadership. Hardly a stable income for getting a mortgage is it?
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Post by superteacher on Feb 5, 2014 22:48:19 GMT
A contracted cleaner appeared to be performing gateline duties earlier at a local station; I wonder if this has been sanctioned appropriately? I read that TfL are trying to wriggle out of paying refunds, saying it's a "planned closure" or "outwith their control" (as a passenger I don't care about the argument an employer has with its employees - if it annoys its employees sufficient that they don't book on for work, that's the employer's problem). Even so, many services advertised as running were not running as they were advertised. An amazing announcement this afternoon : "The Bakerloo, Waterloo & City and Circle lines are closed. The Jubilee line is operating a SPECIAL SERVICE, the Piccadilly line is operating a SPECIAL SERVICE, the Central line is operating a SPECIAL SERVICE, the Victoria line is operating a SPECIAL SERVICE, the Metropolitan line is operating a SPECIAL SERVICE, the Hammersmith and City line is part suspended, the District line is part suspended, the Northern line is operating with severe delays." but the real icing on the cake was the continuation... "There is a good service operating on all other London Underground lines". Still, at least they admitted the delays - at one point the NB Northern line at Camden Town was happily reporting a good service on the line, whilst reporting the next train as being 24 minutes away! Interesting. The term "Special Service" is very misleading. The Hammersmith and City Line was shown (correctly) as part suspended, while the Central line was shown as having a "Special Service", when it too was part suspended from Holborn to White City. As I write, some lines are being shown as a planned closure. This is a load of rubbish, as they had "planned" to operate services on some of these lines until 23:00. It is now 22:30, so how is the line under a planned closure when the "plan" was to run until 23:00? So which is it TFL? Talk about a load or misinformation and lies. They really want to have their cake and eat it don't they . . . It's quite simple - lines that aren't running should say "suspended" whereas lines that are running should say "Reduced service". But hey, why let the truth get in the way of a good lie? |
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