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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2016 15:49:42 GMT
Hi there,
This looks like a great forum and very pleased to have joined!
I wonder if any any clear up a query for me from a discussion I was having with friend? Observations gratefully received.
A few years back, when the frequency of Eastbound trains from Hammersmith to Aldgate or Aldgae East was increased, I believe as part of the 'circle line ceasing to run in a circle' (sorry for lack of technical term!) did this have an official or unofficial impact on the number of westbound services running from Barking to Whitechapel/to Aldgate East and beyond?
I could not work out at time if it did or not?
Would be pleased if anyone could help clear this up.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Mar 7, 2016 16:36:08 GMT
A few years back, when the frequency of Eastbound trains from Hammersmith to Aldgate or Aldgae East was increased, I believe as part of the 'circle line ceasing to run in a circle' (sorry for lack of technical term!) did this have an official or unofficial impact on the number of westbound services running from Barking to Whitechapel/to Aldgate East and beyond? Had the rolling stock been available, it would have been possible to run the same number of trains as before - the only change being a doubling of the service between Edgware Road and Hammersmith as the Circle and H&C would both run there. However, there was no spare rolling stock so, according to www.londonreconnections.com/2013/uncircling-circle-part-2/ the service on all three C-stock operated lines was reduced from 7.5tph (offpeak) or 7tph (peak, when more District and Met trains were running) to 6tph all day. (Note that nearly all sections are shared with each other, or with other lines, to give 12 or even 24 tph). This would include the H&C east of the Aldgate triangle. Seen in this light, the introduction of S7 stock to replace six-car C-stock trains simply restores the number of cars per hour to what it was before. The service on bo "'circle line ceasing to run in a circle'" is as good a name as any - I've seen it referred to as the T-cup, for reasons not entirely clear. A curved shape with a handle on the end could be a Sickle, to go with the Hammer(smith), but maybe that's too revolutionary.
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metman
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Post by metman on Mar 7, 2016 17:26:46 GMT
Trains certainly began to run through to Barking or Plaistow off peak around then. I seem to remember the old peak service alternated Barking/Plaistow till the recent timetables were introduced.
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DWS
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Post by DWS on Mar 7, 2016 20:09:10 GMT
Off peak H & C trains only went to Whitechapel .
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Post by superteacher on Mar 7, 2016 20:22:49 GMT
Off peak H & C trains only went to Whitechapel . This was true for many years. I think it was the late 90's when they extended every second train to Barking, initially on Monday to Saturday only.
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metman
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Post by metman on Mar 8, 2016 6:10:04 GMT
When did Whitechapel cease to be used as a reversing point? Was it around the time of the amended circle line?
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Post by norbitonflyer on Mar 8, 2016 10:15:33 GMT
partly to improve frequencies between Whitechapel and barking, but mainly because the centre platforms which terminating trains used, have been closed to provide passenger access to the crossrail platforms underneath Used to look like this Now looks like this"]
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2016 10:54:01 GMT
Those reponses are really helpful. So it looks like Whitechapel-Barking frequencies on the H&C line are at present not less - and perhaps more - than they have been in the past.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Mar 8, 2016 13:56:23 GMT
When did Whitechapel cease to be used as a reversing point? Was it around the time of the amended circle line? Scheduled reversing of H&C trains finished with the start of WTT23 on 13 December 2009. This was the day that the extended Circle Line was introduced. Prior to this, all off-peak H&C trains reversed at Whitechapel; after this date all peak-hour trains operated to Barking, off-peak trains reversed at either Plaistow or Barking (20mins to both). The four platform layout ceased to exist after 31 January 2011. It is still possible to reverse trains at Whitechapel; EB to WB from platform or via head-shunt WB to EB from platform
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2016 17:48:21 GMT
partly to improve frequencies between Whitechapel and barking, but mainly because the centre platforms which terminating trains used, have been closed to provide passenger access to the crossrail platforms underneath Used to look like this Now looks like this"] Most H&C trains terminated in Plat 1 on the rare occasion Plat 2 was used if two of them turned up within a few minutes of each other.
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Post by superteacher on Mar 8, 2016 17:58:15 GMT
When did Whitechapel cease to be used as a reversing point? Was it around the time of the amended circle line? Scheduled reversing of H&C trains finished with the start of WTT23 on 13 December 2009. This was the day that the extended Circle Line was introduced. Prior to this, all off-peak H&C trains reversed at Whitechapel; after this date all peak-hour trains operated to Barking, off-peak trains reversed at either Plaistow or Barking (20mins to both). The four platform layout ceased to exist after 31 January 2011. It is still possible to reverse trains at Whitechapel; EB to WB from platform or via head-shunt WB to EB from platform Off peak H&C trains were operating beyond Whitechapel well before 2009.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Mar 8, 2016 18:17:06 GMT
Most H&C trains terminated in Plat 1 on the rare occasion Plat 2 was used if two of them turned up within a few minutes of each other. Sorry for my oversimplification. Regardless of which trains used which platforms, it was no longer possible to have trains terminate there - at least not if you wanted to run a reliable and frequent through service as well - after the number of platforms was reduced to just two.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Mar 9, 2016 12:55:46 GMT
Off peak H&C trains were operating beyond Whitechapel well before 2009. Indeed, i misread the notes i was quoting from regards WTT23. Off-peak services beyond Whitechapel were introduced with WTT9 on 29 September 1996, with an 8-min service operated to Whitechapel and a 16-min service to Barking.
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Post by Tomcakes on Mar 19, 2016 19:50:50 GMT
This said, there are still people from east of Whitechapel who want the H&C service who will catch the first train to Whitechapel and change there, even though there can no longer be any advantage to doing so! (Where previously you may have got on a reverser quicker than waiting for a through train).
It's still advised on the DMIs at some stations, and even older folk still occasionally refer to the Metropolitan!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2016 20:24:18 GMT
Things have significantly improved if you catch the service from Barking as you don't have to guess which platform the trains are going from - although I hear rumours the far off platform is used on occasions which would be mighty annoying!
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Post by superteacher on Mar 20, 2016 9:35:42 GMT
This said, there are still people from east of Whitechapel who want the H&C service who will catch the first train to Whitechapel and change there, even though there can no longer be any advantage to doing so! (Where previously you may have got on a reverser quicker than waiting for a through train). It's still advised on the DMIs at some stations, and even older folk still occasionally refer to the Metropolitan! Old habits die hard! The advice always used to be to change at Aldgate East, as changing at Whitechapel involved crossing platforms via the stairs. Even now, some late running H&C trains are reversed at Plaistow, so it could be argued that for passengers at Upton Park, East Ham and Barking, there is still some logic in taking the first District line train and changing further down the line.
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metman
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Post by metman on Mar 21, 2016 6:35:49 GMT
Indeed, Bow road still had Metropolitan and District lines on the sign outside and some destination indicators still or until recently had 'change at Aldgate East for Metropolitan Line'. Love it!
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