londoner
thinking on '73 stock
Posts: 478
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Post by londoner on Nov 23, 2016 21:11:05 GMT
Why has there been a shortage of trains recently?
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rincew1nd
Administrator
Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
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Post by rincew1nd on Nov 23, 2016 21:12:39 GMT
As a guess: wheel flats as a result of current poor adhesion?
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Post by PiccNT on Nov 23, 2016 22:18:50 GMT
As a guess: wheel flats as a result of current poor adhesion? Yes, I would agree with that. Every train I have driven recently seems to have them. Obviously it wasn't me that caused them :-)
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Post by jacks on Nov 23, 2016 23:26:43 GMT
Same thing last year. Is it going to be an issue every year until the new stock is introduced?
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Post by marri260 on Nov 24, 2016 3:05:12 GMT
The RAT will now make daily runs onto the Picc until the end of the sandite season.
As to whether it will remain an issue until the NTFL, it is an interesting point. I think it'd be fair to assume that the availability of the 2 RATs for next year's season will result in an improved coverage on the Picc. But the fundamental issues with the 73TS will remain either way, although it must be said that a lot of it is down to driving technique. Even a train as good as the S Stock will develop flats if not handled properly.
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Post by fish7373 on Nov 24, 2016 13:24:41 GMT
Hi yes due to flats on line again same as last year and probably the same next year the Picc line needs it`s own RAT train. FISH7373 81C NFP
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2016 10:03:23 GMT
I was wondering is it possible to run district line trains to Rayners Lane due to the pic line train shortages and run some sort of service
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Post by norbitonflyer on Nov 25, 2016 10:13:48 GMT
I was wondering is it possible to run district line trains to Rayners Lane due to the pic line train shortages and run some sort of service Not really practical - not enough stock, and some bridges not cleared for S stock at full speed/carrying passengers. (There may also be not enough drivers signed for both the stock and the route).
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Nov 25, 2016 12:55:03 GMT
I was wondering is it possible to run district line trains to Rayners Lane due to the pic line train shortages and run some sort of service Not really practical - not enough stock, and some bridges not cleared for S stock at full speed/carrying passengers. (There may also be not enough drivers signed for both the stock and the route). I don't think any District Drivers are trained that route, District Dave only took a train that way because he'd ridden with some Picc drivers. Terminating all Picc services at Rayner's Lane and leaving Uxbridge passengers in the hands of the Met line is probably realistic though.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2016 15:56:05 GMT
Looks like they have suspended the Uxbridge branch for the weekend at least. Just received an email from TFL regarding the closure and twitter users complaining all over the place about it. Let's hope next year this does not happen 👍🏼
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Post by MoreToJack on Nov 25, 2016 16:20:09 GMT
Not just the weekend, all day today as well!
37 cancellations this evening.
Edit: Despite the branch being suspended, the A stock RAT has still done the regular trip down the Picc to Acton Town.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Nov 25, 2016 17:42:23 GMT
I was wondering is it possible to run district line trains to Rayners Lane due to the pic line train shortages and run some sort of service S Stock are not permitted from Hanger Lane junction-Rayners Lane except in engineering hours. No platforms are fitted with the required equipment to operate S Stock in passenger service, at each station stop the driver would have to use the 'emergency open' procedure which overrides a safety device to get the doors open.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2016 17:47:58 GMT
I do believe the signalling on that section hasn't been immunised and is not compatible with the traction equipment on S stock trains.
Also, while the S stock have WSP (wheel slide protection) and presumably cope better than the 73s, they're not immune to flats either!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2016 18:10:47 GMT
I do believe the signalling on that section hasn't been immunised and is not compatible with the traction equipment on S stock trains. Also, while the S stock have WSP (wheel slide protection) and presumably cope better than the 73s, they're not immune to flats either! Don't read into that too much they are a bit concerned with the 33 1/3Hz signalling supply interfering with the S stock at 50Hz. Before the east end of the District was fully immunised they were running S stocks over the same equipment and guess what happened? It all worked as designed.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2016 18:13:00 GMT
I was wondering is it possible to run district line trains to Rayners Lane due to the pic line train shortages and run some sort of service S Stock are not permitted from Hanger Lane junction-Rayners Lane except in engineering hours. No platforms are fitted with the required equipment to operate S Stock in passenger service, at each station stop the driver would have to use the 'emergency open' procedure which overrides a safety device to get the doors open. Simple run the remaining D stock up there on a shuttle service which uses the regular CSDE equipment
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Post by PiccNT on Nov 25, 2016 18:31:14 GMT
Excellent. I book on at 21:30 this evening. Another night of fun :-)
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Post by sawb on Nov 25, 2016 19:30:05 GMT
Was a fun few hours at Hammersmith today, that's for sure.....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2016 20:37:43 GMT
Won't the D-Stock foul the structure gauge for the Piccadilly Line somehow???
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2016 20:44:22 GMT
The D stock is cleared on the Rayners Lane branch just needs to slow down to 10mph for a few of the bridges
It was cleared to Hounslow Central but that was a few years ago now
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Post by philthetube on Nov 25, 2016 21:18:27 GMT
I don't think it would be allowed to operate in passenger service without a system in place to ensure that 10 mph is adhered to.
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Post by philthetube on Nov 25, 2016 21:23:22 GMT
I do believe the signalling on that section hasn't been immunised and is not compatible with the traction equipment on S stock trains. Also, while the S stock have WSP (wheel slide protection) and presumably cope better than the 73s, they're not immune to flats either! I think you only get a flat on S stock if an emergency brake application is made as this overides the WSP. Three ways to do that, Pull the handle right back Drop the handle Get tripped. I hear that S stock which get flats are being downloaded to discover how they get them and who was driving, but this could be rumour.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Nov 25, 2016 21:54:26 GMT
Won't the D-Stock foul the structure gauge for the Piccadilly Line somehow??? Well, it would certainly not fit the tunnel sections, but the Rayners Lane branch (and the Hounslow branch) were originally part of the District Railway, and generally still have the surface stock structure gauge. However, clearances under some bridges are now a bit restricted as the track bed has, I understand, been built up in places - particularly near station platforms.
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Post by philthetube on Nov 26, 2016 6:36:36 GMT
apparently over half the picc fleet is currently laid up.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Nov 26, 2016 10:10:50 GMT
I don't think it would be allowed to operate in passenger service without a system in place to ensure that 10 mph is adhered to. How about a designated member of staff in the cab who can observe the speed limit board and ensure that the train speed is appropriately retarded for the duration of the restriction? This person could operate a number of other systems on board, in fact I envisage their job title being "Train Operator"
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class411
Operations: Normal
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Post by class411 on Nov 26, 2016 11:45:01 GMT
I don't think it would be allowed to operate in passenger service without a system in place to ensure that 10 mph is adhered to. How about a designated member of staff in the cab who can observe the speed limit board and ensure that the train speed is appropriately retarded for the duration of the restriction? This person could operate a number of other systems on board, in fact I envisage their job title being "Train Operator" Or, as 99.99834% of the population would say: Driver. (To me, operator makes the driver sound something like a lift attendant.)
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Post by phoenixcronin on Nov 26, 2016 12:23:11 GMT
I heard a 73 go past at Turnham Green which sounded horrible, definitely had a flat or two. They must be stretching the definition of what's "acceptable" to keep in service
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Nov 26, 2016 12:35:24 GMT
How about a designated member of staff in the cab who can observe the speed limit board and ensure that the train speed is appropriately retarded for the duration of the restriction? This person could operate a number of other systems on board, in fact I envisage their job title being "Train Operator" Or, as 99.99834% of the population would say: Driver. (To me, operator makes the driver sound something like a lift attendant.) 411, I think you'll find that it's 99.99832%
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2016 12:59:27 GMT
Or, as 99.99834% of the population would say: Driver. (To me, operator makes the driver sound something like a lift attendant.) 411, I think you'll find that it's 99.99832% Only in the 2015 data. Now, I know the 2016 data hasn't been officially published yet, but I've heard the same figures as class411. P.S. Don't let the staff distract you with our messing around, we've got a very interesting thread here.
Is today's shortage of trains on the Central line the same problem. I assumed it was totally unrelated, since the Central does have two RATs of its very own and established separate reliability issues, but I'd be interested to find out for sure.
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North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
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Post by North End on Nov 26, 2016 13:08:37 GMT
I do believe the signalling on that section hasn't been immunised and is not compatible with the traction equipment on S stock trains. Also, while the S stock have WSP (wheel slide protection) and presumably cope better than the 73s, they're not immune to flats either! I think you only get a flat on S stock if an emergency brake application is made as this overides the WSP. Three ways to do that, Pull the handle right back Drop the handle Get tripped. I hear that S stock which get flats are being downloaded to discover how they get them and who was driving, but this could be rumour. 95 stock also has quite a few trains with flats at the moment. Normally it's because they've gone NCT because Seltrac can't cope with rain, got EB'd and flatted the wheels in the process.
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Post by PiccNT on Nov 26, 2016 13:14:30 GMT
I was the first train out of Cockfosters Depot this morning. That also had pretty bad flats. I'm sure the experienced driver, sorry operator that relieved me will be having a work with the Controller! We have been told that there has been a forensic investigation launched into the problem as it's the worst it's ever been. For sure there will be an element of "driving techniques" highlighted as a cause.
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