Chris M
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Post by Chris M on May 19, 2018 17:58:37 GMT
There have been different fares within the zones shown for years, even on just the tube map, let alone the rail services map. The zones are a guide to distance and to cost, and have never claimed to show exact fares. The map does try and show too much, but the zones are not the major culprit there - the step-free symbols are the worst offender (and they really are misleading).
We're getting off-topic for this thread though.
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Post by goldenarrow on May 19, 2018 18:02:33 GMT
I'm surprised, could have sworn when I visited Heathrow last that some of the 360's had purple/indigo doors. Your memory is correct, there is a solitary unit of class 360 in Heathrow Express livery (360205) , it was initially allocated to only operate the Heathrow Central - T4 shuttle but is often now seen on Heathrow Connect services too.
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Post by Deep Level on May 19, 2018 18:20:53 GMT
It is a shame TFL Rail have not tweaked the vinyl design to incorporate a broad black vertical stripe to cover over the black stain marks usually visible on 360s below the Pantograph compartment. The staining is clearly visible in the video on those TFL rebranded 360s and on the Heathrow Connect variants so I am guessing the stain is unavoidable due to some sort of lubricant needed by the pantograph mechanism - as those marks do not appear on the rest of the train. As Mr Honda worked out very early on with their motorbike designs, just paint areas matt black if its likely to get grubby in routine use, then it still looks presentable even if it really is covered in road dirt and chain grease. It is pantograph related, you can see that the black stripe emanates from a drain hole for the pantograph well, but I would suspect that the black grubbiness is mainly carbon dust off of the pantograph head which had been carried there by rainwater draining away. Modifying the vinyls to cover it over would be a waste of money though, they're only changing the logos - not the livery. I'm curious to know why they rebranded everything but still left a first group logo at the front... How many 360s are they keeping? I'm assuming not all given the the Hayes and Harlington trains will use 345s. Until tomorrow, they are still first group operated, I would expect the flying F's to disappear once TfL actually start operating them. As I understand it, they are taking all 5 of the 360s, as they are also taking over operation of the inter terminal shuttle operation, which uses one unit, as well as the units needed to operate the mainline connect service. Didn't HEX operate the inter-terminal shuttle? I know they're taking over the route also but wouldn't that unit still belong to HEX? |
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Post by domh245 on May 19, 2018 19:20:48 GMT
AIUI, HEX operated the inter terminal shuttle, and unit 205 is done in a HEX-esque livery for exactly that reason, but it was in a common pool with units 201-204, because of reliability concerns with the fleet with 332s often being used on the shuttle instead. The structure and relationship between HEX and Heathrow Connect was a little complicated
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Post by spsmiler on May 19, 2018 20:22:44 GMT
Will the 360s be receiving any livery change or seat cover change? has got a video showing a rebranded 360. Thanks for the mention. This was filmed last Thursday when returning home after seeing a friend off from the airport. I had seen a tweet by TFL Rail showing them applying their logo to a train side but did not expect to see this train in action before Sunday. So imagine my surprise when I saw this train arriving at the T123 station! This is why I alighted at West Ealing - in the past I'd seen the HeC (Heathrow Connect) trains cross each other at this station so I did not 'chance it' by alighting at Ealing Broadway, which is where my ticket expired. In the event I probably would have been OK at Ealing Broadway as many trains were running late (see the passenger information display on the top right corner of the video image). I have no idea why but westbound 'all stations' trains were travelling much faster than the longer distance fast trains. In a way I was slightly peeved that the rebranded train had turned up at the airport station, as I had wanted to film inside a 360 which had Connect branded route information etc. I was also peeved that the passenger information in this train was not working properly. Maybe though the latter is because TfL Rail had already loaded their on-train messages, so therefore all messages had to be made 'live' rather than as automated recordings. As an aside, re: ticketing, I had to buy a paper ticket (cost £8.00) to travel on the HeC service as Oyster acceptance only starts after TfL Rail take over the service. But conversely having a paper ticket meant that I could wait for the rebranded train to arrive at Ealing Broadway on its next journey towards Heathrow without fear of breaching any journey time limit. My use of Oyster only started when I touched in immediately before boarding a Central Line train at Ealing Broadway. Something which did not make the film (I could not find the photos - I need to catalogue all my images!) is that the aircraft style floor lights which point to the nearest (emergency) exit are no longer working.  Simon |
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Post by spsmiler on May 19, 2018 20:29:32 GMT
I think this tweet will be of interest... its from a few days ago.
Some carriages have two logos, others have one. This can be seen in my film.
Simon
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Post by norbitonflyer on May 19, 2018 20:59:54 GMT
The zones are a guide to distance and to cost, and have never claimed to show exact fares. They do show where zonal travelcards are valid though. |
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on May 19, 2018 21:16:21 GMT
As Mr Honda worked out very early on with their motorbike designs, just paint areas matt black if its likely to get grubby in routine use, then it still looks presentable even if it really is covered in road dirt and chain grease. And before him Mr Fowler with his ploughing engines. Similarly Messrs Wallis & Stevens painted their 'Advance' steam rollers in chocolate brown and black by default. |
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Post by jetblast787 on May 21, 2018 8:05:53 GMT
Took my first 345 trip this morning (including my first trip down the Acton dive under!). Observations:
- I hate the announcements. It misses certain phrases such as 'is' and 'the' (eg: 'Next station, Paddington'); just one of the many examples
- The acceleration is pretty impressive but yet as smooth as ice
- Seats are hard, but not ironing board hard
- Either half of west London was asleep this morning or the train definitely relieves congestion. Previously getting on at West Ealing in the morning peak was an Olympic sport, but this morning there were plenty of physical seats free! 
- Acton dive under doesn't feel steep when on a train - contrary to that presentation I attended where the project manager explained every intricacies of the dive under (including it being one of the steepest descends and climbs (on the network iirc?)
- On-time, if not early: contrary to what West Londonders are used to. the 0756 was very often delayed in the mornings
- One of the centre doors didn't open at Paddington even though it was in the middle of the platform. In fairness I didn't check, but maybe it's because the gap between the train and platform was too much? Does the same happen on the east end?
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Post by silenthunter on May 21, 2018 8:25:31 GMT
Are the 9 car 345s in service yet?
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Post by jetblast787 on May 21, 2018 8:31:29 GMT
Are the 9 car 345s in service yet? Yep, 2tph between Paddington and H&H assisted by 2tph 360's between Heathrow and Paddington. Just hope they resolve the signaling issues so they all become 345's. There were around 4 345's I could see parked at OOC this morning.
Edit: just realized you meant the 9 car-ers. Not sure, I didn't could XD
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Post by norbitonflyer on May 21, 2018 10:20:21 GMT
One of the centre doors didn't open at Paddington even though it was in the middle of the platform. maybe it's because the gap between the train and platform was too much? Does the same happen on the east end? I seem to recall reading that the centre doors can indeed be cut out on sharply concavely-curved platforms. However, I can't think of a station anywhere on the route, other than Paddington (High Level), which has such curvaceous platforms. |
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Post by Deep Level on May 21, 2018 11:42:31 GMT
Are the 9 car 345s in service yet? Yep, 2tph between Paddington and H&H assisted by 2tph 360's between Heathrow and Paddington. Just hope they resolve the signaling issues so they all become 345's. There were around 4 345's I could see parked at OOC this morning.
Edit: just realized you meant the 9 car-ers. Not sure, I didn't could XD
It was my understanding that they are using 7 car cl345s until the cl345s start running through the Heathrow Tunnels and no longer have to use the bay at H&H. |
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2018 18:34:54 GMT
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Post by goldenarrow on May 22, 2018 16:23:07 GMT
I really hope that these trains are given proper coherent announcements before the core opens up, there's some questionable continuity in the interchanges for Ealing Broadway and Paddington.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2018 18:58:12 GMT
I really hope that these trains are given proper coherent announcements before the core opens up, there's some questionable continuity in the interchanges for Ealing Broadway and Paddington. Please give an example of what you would see as a 'coherent announcement'. |
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Post by goldenarrow on May 22, 2018 20:07:43 GMT
I really hope that these trains are given proper coherent announcements before the core opens up, there's some questionable continuity in the interchanges for Ealing Broadway and Paddington. Please give an example of what you would see as a 'coherent announcement'. Coherent to me just means forming a sentence rather than loosely spliced pieces of information. To be honest, it doesn't really matter at the moment given that most TFL Rail passengers are fairly in the know as the only difference on both sides of London are new trains and brand identity. But when the core starts unlocking more destinations being used by more passengers who may not be familiar with the network, those announcements will arguably be as important as all the other way finding aspects which I like comparing to an invisible member of staff. I'm not sure how the current announcements are generated but it can't seem to say Circle in instead slurring somewhat (sounds like 'svirkle'). Following departure from a station the next station is announced followed by its interchanges, this can easily work on central stations which follow on at close distance but in quite a number of outer suburban cases surely announcing interchanges on the approach to said station would suffice? This next one might just be me, but I can't concentrate on the information that is being announced when in this elongated format, it just sounds very staccato to me. I don't really care wether this is changed or not given the subjective nature of this topic and given the circumstances I'd wager that people working on the trains have got bigger fish to fry. |
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2018 21:32:10 GMT
Things such as "change for Central, District and National rail services" just doesn't sound right. Is it so tricky to fit in "lines" after District. I know it's picky but it just doesn't sound right. I also don't like how they announce changes so early and when stations are long distances apart such as, Paddington to Acton, it doesn't really make sense.
Also, it might just be the 345 I was on but in the fast sections around Southall, there seemed to be a JLE-esque howl as the train travelled at speed, any thoughts?
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on May 22, 2018 21:35:48 GMT
Regarding your first point @ethano92345, I've not travelled on a 345 out west yet, but they don't have any problems announcing all the changes at Statford when arriving on the DLR.
"Change here for London Underground Central and Jubilee lines, National Rail, TfL Rail and local bus services."
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Post by domh245 on May 22, 2018 21:56:06 GMT
Things such as "change for Central, District and National rail services" just doesn't sound right. Is it so tricky to fit in "lines" after District. I know it's picky but it just doesn't sound right. I also don't like how they announce changes so early and when stations are long distances apart such as, Paddington to Acton, it doesn't really make sense. I do find it amusing how some people complain about the verbal diarrhoea of announcements, but as soon as you try to fix that other people start complaining about the wording of it!  Joking aside, the point about changes is probably worth letting TfL know how you feel about that, moaning on the internet is all well and good but it doesn't (always) fix things. If you let them know, they can try and do stuff about it (or at least explaining the rationale behind the current setup and why they aren't going to change it!) Also, it might just be the 345 I was on but in the fast sections around Southall, there seemed to be a JLE-esque howl as the train travelled at speed, any thoughts? That howling noise is a fairly normal noise that you tend to hear once the rails have been ground - it is particularly noticeable at higher speeds, or if you are in a tunnel reflecting the sound back at you! |
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2018 23:23:39 GMT
Oh ok, I've never really heard it so boldy before though so I was quite confused. I also didn't get it anywhere near as much travelling over the same track on a 387 but I can't be certain it was going the same speed.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2018 23:31:36 GMT
Things such as "change for Central, District and National rail services" just doesn't sound right. Is it so tricky to fit in "lines" after District. I know it's picky but it just doesn't sound right. I also don't like how they announce changes so early and when stations are long distances apart such as, Paddington to Acton, it doesn't really make sense. Also, it might just be the 345 I was on but in the fast sections around Southall, there seemed to be a JLE-esque howl as the train travelled at speed, any thoughts? Your right about that howl . I agree, it sound a lot different than what Brits are used to. According to a TfL Rail worker I spoke to, the DVA system is aiming to follow the footsteps taken by the DVA used on London Buses. A major downside I've noticed is that the next stop is not announced (of even shown on the screen) until after the bus has departed the bus stop - this annoys me so much every time I use London's buses and a Class 345 train. I also don't get why interchange announcements are made early either when this idea was scrapped upon introduction of the London Underground S7 stock. IMOH, it's better for passengers to have that information fresh in their minds as they prepare to leave the train. How does this sound (on approach - just before the train has reached the platform)? "Next station: Ealing Broadway. The platform is on the left. Change for Central line, District line and National Rail services. Mind the gap between the train and the platform." (arriving at the platform) "This is Ealing Broadway." (at the platform - X seconds after door release) "Elizabeth line to Reading. Next station: West Ealing." |
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2018 23:46:36 GMT
I too agree that the next stop should be announced before the train has departed, especially because stopping patterns west of Paddington are quite complicated and will be even when the full line is operational. S stock announcements are one of the best. 345s are trains, not buses, they should have train-like announcements which are informatice in the right way. I hope this hasn't strayed off topic from the thread.
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Post by alpinejohn on May 24, 2018 19:09:16 GMT
Back to 345 and testing.
Two new videos have been posted up by Crossrail on their youtube channel. These include the latest quarterly video progress report and a brief video showing 345 now being tested on the eastern section of the central tunnels through to Canary Wharf.
The good news it suggests they have fixed whatever went bang a while back and the OHLE(Overhead Line Equipment) is now fully energised in at least the eastern section of the central tunnels and they have got enough of the automated train control system operational to allow some test train running.
On the shorter video I spotted one oddity (which is probably just a test operation issue) where the test train seemed to adopt right hand running (like mainland Europe) - I assume when the line is operational it will adopt normal UK running.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2018 20:14:36 GMT
I too noticed that. I wonder if the test train returns along the same track or uses a cross over. If it does return along the same track, I wonder if the other tunnel is currently being tested.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2018 21:17:17 GMT
Back to 345 and testing. Two new videos have been posted up by Crossrail on their youtube channel. These include the latest quarterly video progress report and a brief video showing 345 now being tested on the eastern section of the central tunnels through to Canary Wharf. The good news it suggests they have fixed whatever went bang a while back and the OHLE(Overhead Line Equipment) is now fully energised in at least the eastern section of the central tunnels and they have got enough of the automated train control system operational to allow some test train running. On the shorter video I spotted one oddity (which is probably just a test operation issue) where the test train seemed to adopt right hand running (like mainland Europe) - I assume when the line is operational it will adopt normal UK running. The route is fully bi-directional but normal UK running will be the standard operational approach. During testing it is sometimes more efficient (or necessary if crossovers are locked out of use) to run a train up and back using a single bore. The eastern section has been energised since February. The western section was energised for the first time a couple of days ago. |
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Post by superteacher on May 29, 2018 21:02:00 GMT
On a journey from Liverpool Street to Shenfield today I only saw 4 class 345’s out of a total of 16 trains. Is there another issue affecting availability?
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Post by crusty54 on May 30, 2018 3:26:36 GMT
On a journey from Liverpool Street to Shenfield today I only saw 4 class 345’s out of a total of 16 trains. Is there another issue affecting availability? Whilst the bay road at Hayes & Harlington has been extended to accommodate 9 car trains, they are not approved for use yet. Some of the 7 car trains have been moved west to run the service from Paddington to Hayes & Harlington. There are 9 car trains at Old Oak Common and being tested on the main line and these will take over when they are approved and the 7 car trains will return east. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2018 17:43:08 GMT
Quick update. Today was the first Class 345 run under its own power from Stepney Green junction as far as Paddington (and Westbourne Park). Slow speed with no signalling.
So a 345 has now run under power through all of the Central section except for the transition boundaries at Pudding Mill Lane-Stratford and a short stretch at Westbourne Park.
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Post by spsmiler on Jun 12, 2018 22:09:11 GMT
I've been out on the west twice this week. On Sunday I discovered that the 345's have a day off. Today I wanted to travel on a 345 but alas it did not happen.
Instead from Ealing Broadway the first train heading west was a 387 in GWR livery. As I was using Oyster PAYG I decided to not wait for a 345, in case the wait meant that I breached the journey time limit. The 387 had a much higher specced interior than the 345's, complete with 2+2 seating arranged around tables and toilets. This train took me straight to Hayes and Harlington (non-stop) where there was a 345 in the bay.
My other attempt to travel in a 345 in west London was thwarted by the train not stopping at the station where I was waiting for it. This was Hanwell. It seems that only the 360's are stopping here. I was told that this is because its a quiet station which did not surprise me as I had a devil of job finding it. In the end I had to ask three different groups people to point me in the right direction. From the A4020 at Hanwell (next to the clock tower) I saw a sign pointing to Boston Manor Piccadilly line station but it was as if the location of Hanwell was a state secret.
What struck me was that passengers to the west of London will have a much greater choice of services and trains with varying internal specifications than passengers to the east of London.
Simon
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