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Post by trt on Jan 16, 2017 12:57:53 GMT
I'm not sure I like the signage at the top of the escalator. I know it's the same elsewhere, where lines are separated, but it seems to indicate that the lady coming up should be going down. Why not just three coloured bars, blue, green, yellow, and Victoria, District and Circle Lines?
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Jan 16, 2017 13:44:47 GMT
Now all the trains go to Walthamstow, why has the directional sign at the new platform entrance been altered to Oxford Circus, Euston and K+? They are just landmark stations, listed as key destinations. Just like the southbound is.
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Post by crusty54 on Jan 16, 2017 14:10:42 GMT
Now all the trains go to Walthamstow, why has the directional sign at the new platform entrance been altered to Oxford Circus, Euston and K+? They are just landmark stations, listed as key destinations. Just like the southbound is. it is not possible to show all stations on overhead signs. The three chosen are the places that infrequent travellers are most likely to want.
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Post by stapler on Jan 16, 2017 14:38:30 GMT
Would have thought the ultimate station was just as useful.... As on the southbound....
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Post by brooklynbound on Jan 16, 2017 15:08:56 GMT
I notice from the pictures that the lifts aren't in use yet. Suprised given the wait for the big day. I know the station isn't fully disabled friendly yet but lifts are a bonus for some travellers even if they only take you half the way.
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Post by malcolmffc on Jan 16, 2017 15:14:54 GMT
Would have thought the ultimate station was just as useful.... As on the southbound.... I suspect the number of people going to Walthamstow (or anywhere north of Kings X for that matter) from Victoria is minimal compared to those going to Euston, KX or Oxford Circus. When I take the Victoria line to work in the morning from Vauxhall it is near empty by Euston. Southbound has the advantage that there are only 3 stops, and the sign has room for all of them!
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Post by trt on Jan 16, 2017 15:16:35 GMT
I agree. Common destination stations. And Oxford Circus... well... that's as busy as Oxford Circus!
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Post by snoggle on Jan 16, 2017 15:21:37 GMT
I notice from the pictures that the lifts aren't in use yet. Suprised given the wait for the big day. I know the station isn't fully disabled friendly yet but lifts are a bonus for some travellers even if they only take you half the way. Wild guess on my part but it may simply be that all rostered staff have not been familiarised on lifts. After all they are a brand new asset type at Victoria station and, unfortunately, new lifts tend to break down a fair bit (IME). Staff need to be able to use all the requisite systems to get the lift and any people inside them to a safe place - especially in any sort of evacuation or emergency. The continuing overtime ban may also be a factor here if asset familiarisation is ever done on overtime. If staff are refusing to do such overtime then you can't familiarise people. The alternative is to try to do it in normal rostered time and if station staffing levels are as fragile as they appear to be then you run the risk of stations not having enough staff in their rostered positions during any asset familiarisation. Cruel as it sounds I'd rather stations were kept open than staff being trained on new lifts at stns that haven't had lifts for decades. The number of station closures at the north end of the Vic Line is unacceptable and needs resolving immediately. Fix the staffing c*ck ups and then by all means bring whatever new lifts / ticket halls / whatever into service.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jan 16, 2017 15:33:15 GMT
Now all the trains go to Walthamstow, why has the directional sign at the new platform entrance been altered to Oxford Circus, Euston and K+? Because those are very popular destinations for people unfamiliar with the tube. If a tourist wants to get to Euston for example then that sign tells them that that is the platform they want, they don't have to figure out (or ask someone) whether a train to Walthamstow goes to Euston or not. A much greater proportion of people heading to stations north of King's Cross will know they need a northbound train.
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Post by stapler on Jan 16, 2017 16:10:02 GMT
Quite agree the popular stations should be there. If you have the end station only, as in Paris (eg Villejuif-Louis Aragon) that is wildly unhelpful, but so should the terminal!
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Post by theblackferret on Jan 16, 2017 16:56:33 GMT
@londonstuff
Thanks for the photos, especially the last one-we should have a special quiz & the winner gets to use that as their avatar!!
Hope, judging from the number of passengers there, you didn't miss out on the complementary sausage at the opening ceremony.
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Post by londonstuff on Jan 16, 2017 17:19:49 GMT
@londonstuff Thanks for the photos, especially the last one-we should have a special quiz & the winner gets to use that as their avatar!! Hope, judging from the number of passengers there, you didn't miss out on the complementary sausage at the opening ceremony. No, the sausages were for the riff raff. I was in the premium group with the Iranian caviar and the caipirinhas.
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Post by rsdworker on Jan 16, 2017 17:22:06 GMT
I notice from the pictures that the lifts aren't in use yet. Suprised given the wait for the big day. I know the station isn't fully disabled friendly yet but lifts are a bonus for some travellers even if they only take you half the way. Wild guess on my part but it may simply be that all rostered staff have not been familiarised on lifts. After all they are a brand new asset type at Victoria station and, unfortunately, new lifts tend to break down a fair bit (IME). Staff need to be able to use all the requisite systems to get the lift and any people inside them to a safe place - especially in any sort of evacuation or emergency. The continuing overtime ban may also be a factor here if asset familiarisation is ever done on overtime. If staff are refusing to do such overtime then you can't familiarise people. The alternative is to try to do it in normal rostered time and if station staffing levels are as fragile as they appear to be then you run the risk of stations not having enough staff in their rostered positions during any asset familiarisation. Cruel as it sounds I'd rather stations were kept open than staff being trained on new lifts at stns that haven't had lifts for decades. The number of station closures at the north end of the Vic Line is unacceptable and needs resolving immediately. Fix the staffing c*ck ups and then by all means bring whatever new lifts / ticket halls / whatever into service. i agree - lifts should be open - no need for staff training - take look at different stations around UK - when new lift opens then its that's it - they dont not require staff training before its officially opens in other countries such sweden and other - new lifts open straightaway after its completed testing and safety checks has done then after that staff can be trained depnds on location
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Post by crusty54 on Jan 16, 2017 17:33:44 GMT
Wild guess on my part but it may simply be that all rostered staff have not been familiarised on lifts. After all they are a brand new asset type at Victoria station and, unfortunately, new lifts tend to break down a fair bit (IME). Staff need to be able to use all the requisite systems to get the lift and any people inside them to a safe place - especially in any sort of evacuation or emergency. The continuing overtime ban may also be a factor here if asset familiarisation is ever done on overtime. If staff are refusing to do such overtime then you can't familiarise people. The alternative is to try to do it in normal rostered time and if station staffing levels are as fragile as they appear to be then you run the risk of stations not having enough staff in their rostered positions during any asset familiarisation. Cruel as it sounds I'd rather stations were kept open than staff being trained on new lifts at stns that haven't had lifts for decades. The number of station closures at the north end of the Vic Line is unacceptable and needs resolving immediately. Fix the staffing c*ck ups and then by all means bring whatever new lifts / ticket halls / whatever into service. i agree - lifts should be open - no need for staff training - take look at different stations around UK - when new lift opens then its that's it - they dont not require staff training before its officially opens in other countries such sweden and other - new lifts open straightaway after its completed testing and safety checks has done then after that staff can be trained depnds on location how many of those lifts are in deep level stations with the station staff having to know how to evacuate people throughout traffic hours (24 hours twice per week)?
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Post by snoggle on Jan 16, 2017 17:51:18 GMT
i agree - lifts should be open - no need for staff training - take look at different stations around UK - when new lift opens then its that's it - they dont not require staff training before its officially opens in other countries such sweden and other - new lifts open straightaway after its completed testing and safety checks has done then after that staff can be trained depnds on location I think I wasn't clear enough. I was not advocating the abandonment of staff training. I was saying the operational priority, at present, should be ensuring all stations are open during advertised hours. If we have to wait for new lifts to be brought into service then so be it. Given the need to get people out of Underground stations safely and in a defined time period during emergencies then it is simply not practical for station staff NOT to know about lift operation and how the lifts in their station(s) work. I doubt other countries or other main line stations [1] are subject to the safety rules that apply to LUL. [1] yes I know the same law applies but the number of NR stations that are directly analogous to LU's deep tube stations is pretty small. NR seems to be able to put lifts into service in unmanned stations like Lea Bridge. Heaven knows what happens if you get stuck in the lift and the station catches fire.
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Post by londonstuff on Jan 17, 2017 1:25:50 GMT
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Post by malcolmffc on Jan 18, 2017 7:30:08 GMT
I see that like the new entrance at TCR there are no spaces for advertising on the escalators or anywhere else in the entrance. Is it a TfL policy not to have these in new developments? It definitely looks more aesthetically pleasing but I'm surprised they can afford to forgo the advertising income.
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Post by snoggle on Jan 18, 2017 19:34:24 GMT
I see that like the new entrance at TCR there are no spaces for advertising on the escalators or anywhere else in the entrance. Is it a TfL policy not to have these in new developments? It definitely looks more aesthetically pleasing but I'm surprised they can afford to forgo the advertising income. "Yet" - I expect something whizzy will arrive in due course in both new station areas. The entire JLE was designed to be advertising free - that didn't last and there weren't the same financial pressures as there are now.
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Post by crusty54 on Jan 18, 2017 20:38:08 GMT
I see that like the new entrance at TCR there are no spaces for advertising on the escalators or anywhere else in the entrance. Is it a TfL policy not to have these in new developments? It definitely looks more aesthetically pleasing but I'm surprised they can afford to forgo the advertising income. "Yet" - I expect something whizzy will arrive in due course in both new station areas. The entire JLE was designed to be advertising free - that didn't last and there weren't the same financial pressures as they are now. a lot of the visuals are computer generated images rather than photos. The real thing may be different.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Jan 18, 2017 21:01:04 GMT
I see that like the new entrance at TCR there are no spaces for advertising on the escalators or anywhere else in the entrance. Is it a TfL policy not to have these in new developments? It definitely looks more aesthetically pleasing but I'm surprised they can afford to forgo the advertising income. Adverts can always be added later, perhaps when the contract for advertising system-wide is next reviewed? I note with regards the current contract: For the first time, the new contract will combine advertising space across London Underground, London Overground, Tramlink, Docklands Light Railway, Victoria Coach Station and, once it is operational, the Elizabeth line. Which suggests that advertising sites that do not currently exist are included. Perhaps the priority was on opening the station, rather than installing the advertising which can easily be retro-fitted?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 21:14:46 GMT
The ticket machines - are they the new format ones being installed on Crossrail too - with the multiple languages including Hindi and Mandarin too?
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Post by MoreToJack on Jan 18, 2017 21:23:43 GMT
The ticket machines - are they the new format ones being installed on Crossrail too - with the multiple languages including Hindi and Mandarin too? THEY ARE NOT NEW MACHINES. Multiple languages have been available on all LUL POMs for over two years. Crossrail should have an entirely new design of machine not dissimilar from NR TVMs, but with 'rear servicing' functionality. The "newer, smarter" MFMS, AFMs and QBMs are beyond life expired, even the newest (for the JLE but now all over the place) are getting on for 20 years old.
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Post by superteacher on Jan 18, 2017 22:06:50 GMT
Now all the trains go to Walthamstow . . . But they don't! There are still some Seven Sisters terminators, and trains can (albeit rarely) terminate at Warren Street, Kings Cross or Highbury & Islington.
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Post by stapler on Jan 19, 2017 8:15:59 GMT
OK, I stand corrected, for all, read about 9 out of 10! My point remains, that the directional indicators are incomplete or could be misleading. In the 50s, there was a system of lights showing the popular intermediate calling points (blue=Kings Cross) which served well for the tourists.
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Post by crusty54 on Jan 19, 2017 8:42:01 GMT
OK, I stand corrected, for all, read about 9 out of 10! My point remains, that the directional indicators are incomplete or could be misleading. In the 50s, there was a system of lights showing the popular intermediate calling points (blue=Kings Cross) which served well for the tourists. Even more through trains after Easter There are full line diagrams in the passgaes and trackplates at the entrances which show all stations. These are far from misleading. There are also maps on the platforms.
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Post by littlejohn on Jan 19, 2017 12:54:35 GMT
Regarding lack of advertising/display space, I recently watched a TV programme about Atlanta Airport (dubbed as the world's busiest in terms of passenger numbers). They have made a policy decision to reduce displays of all kinds to the minimum; research has shown that the more there is for people to look at the more it disrupts passenger flow. The December 2015 Underground News quotes a letter to The Times in September 2015 complaining that LU had (allegedly) decided to remove map displays from inside the gateline at Victoria as 'they cause passenger congestion'. Maybe the cost of congestion outweighs any advertising revenue lost?
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class411
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Post by class411 on Jan 19, 2017 13:32:53 GMT
The December 2015 Underground News quotes a letter to The Times in September 2015 complaining that LU had (allegedly) decided to remove map displays from inside the gateline at Victoria as 'they cause passenger congestion'. Maybe the cost of congestion outweighs any advertising revenue lost? I don't know that completely removing diagrams from inside the gateline is a good idea, but there are some that have been placed with monumental stupidity. There is access to the District line from two gates slightly offset from the main gateline (out of action recently), where, after passing, there are steps with a diagram section placed in exactly the place to cause people studying it to stand blocking the top of the steps (which thy do - frequently, usually together with a few oversized cases).
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Post by crusty54 on Jan 19, 2017 15:07:07 GMT
The December 2015 Underground News quotes a letter to The Times in September 2015 complaining that LU had (allegedly) decided to remove map displays from inside the gateline at Victoria as 'they cause passenger congestion'. Maybe the cost of congestion outweighs any advertising revenue lost? I don't know that completely removing diagrams from inside the gateline is a good idea, but there are some that have been placed with monumental stupidity. There is access to the District line from two gates slightly offset from the main gateline (out of action recently), where, after passing, there are steps with a diagram section placed in exactly the place to cause people studying it to stand blocking the top of the steps (which thy do - frequently, usually together with a few oversized cases). The problem with the District and Circle line platforms at Victoria is that there is nowhere to put line diagrams that will not cause congestion. We tried alphabetical lists instead in the 80s but too many objections from people looking for the next station for orientation. On reflection they should have had initial letters above each set of stations. The truth is that signs delay passenger flow. You need to get people to the correct platform with the least number of signs. You have to determine the real decision points and ensure that the signs are the right size to be seen from the viewing distance at the location. (Architects don't like to spoil the clean lines of their structures with signage sometimes.)
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class411
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Post by class411 on Jan 19, 2017 15:22:07 GMT
The truth is that signs delay passenger flow. You need to get people to the correct platform with the least number of signs. The particular problem with the site I mentioned is that the congestion occurs at the top of steps and looks like an accident waiting to happen. Placing people who are standing still not concentrating on what is going on around them, often with very large bags and small children (who have a tendency to move quite randomly), directly in the path of busy and possibly impatient travellers, who know exactly where they are going, at the very top of a flight of stairs just seems completely wrong.
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Post by trt on Jan 19, 2017 17:29:15 GMT
It's the same at Euston. They put a NR departure board just past the way out, you can't read it from before the gateline, which is really the point where you're deciding if you should turn left down the tunnel for 8-11 or go straight on to the NR escalator. And then they got rid of even the clock, so you can't make the same decision based on if you've 2 minutes to reach the platform or 10 minutes. They need there just a clock and four dot matrix displays saying e.g. Platform 8: 17:34 Tring
It's not quite so simple with the route diagrams at Victoria, of course, but the point is, whatever happened to that chap who used to go around analysing intuitively where people made decisions and based on what information?
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