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Post by pauluni on Jan 25, 2019 23:08:14 GMT
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Post by brigham on Jan 26, 2019 8:22:22 GMT
End of Steam on the District?
I thought it had ended YONKS ago!
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jan 26, 2019 8:27:16 GMT
End of Steam on the District? I thought it had ended YONKS ago! January 2013 is hardly yonks ago? Ah maybe it is. |
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Post by MoreToJack on Jan 31, 2019 16:22:27 GMT
In the interests of not turning this into a 'master thread' for all and sundry LU-related heritage operations, I've split out the the posts about the 4TC's visit to Swanage to a new thread.
There's no problem using this thread to notify of future heritage train events, or to discuss more generally heritage operations on LU (as indeed this thread grew from), but please create a new thread to discuss specific heritage trips. Thanks.
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Post by pauluni on Feb 21, 2019 23:11:57 GMT
A couple of pictures on the Carl Watson website show 45029 is now back on its bogies: |
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Post by spsmiler on Feb 22, 2019 10:35:34 GMT
Is it permitted to share the timetable for this Sunday's 1938 tube stock journeys?
I have seen it elsewhere, in the public domain.
Simon
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Feb 22, 2019 13:58:56 GMT
Is it permitted to share the timetable for this Sunday's 1938 tube stock journeys? I have seen it elsewhere, in the public domain. Simon Forum rules say: |
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Post by spsmiler on Feb 22, 2019 17:47:27 GMT
Thanks, my being aware of the rules explains why I asked first...
I am not riding the train but instead have bought a Network Railcard rate paper Travelcard (ie: a proper ticket!) and will be out and about on Sunday.
Simon
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Post by spsmiler on Feb 24, 2019 21:16:55 GMT
Well now, so it ran earlier today... and the rule that I have copied below came back to bite me!
(7.1b) The timings can never be guaranteed - in fact these sort of movements often don't happen at the times published, if at all
I say this because the train ran early - passing through Liverpool Street station 10 minutes earlier than advertised.
However, apart from that it seemed to run approximately to time. Since this train was carrying fare paying passengers I did expect to to run as closely as possible to time*, as even though it was a special working it was not like the Rail Adhesion, Track Recording or weedkiller trains which often travel at very different times to those advertised and sometimes even have their complete days' travels changed (on the day itself!) to meet an unexpected issue.
Anyway, I was about and about, it was a lovely day and I hope that everyone enjoyed seeing the train in action - and even riding it. At Moorgate the train staff very kindly allowed non-passengers to board the train to sample and photograph it when actually underground. Admittedly this is also possible at the LT Museum in Covent Garden but that is not a full tube car. I am satisfied that the reason why all my efforts to film inside these trains 30+ years ago left me dissatisfied was not the fault of my camera.Even my digital camera wanted to expose the image for the lights, which left the seats somewhat underexposed. However this was rectified by using what I think is called HDR mode where the camera takes several images at different exposure settings and then stitches them together. Ah, if only this had been possible with point and shoot 110 film cameras.
(*Due to a points issue at Edgware Road one of the LU150 Steam on The Met train journeys had to be extended to Gloucester Road to reverse, which significantly affected its planned timings)
A big and hearty 'Thank You' to everyone who made this train's special run possible.
Simon
ps: and thanks to my paper One Day Travelcard I also enjoyed a hassle-free day travelling about London without worrying about journey time limits, potential maximum fares (as rewards for doing nothing wrong) and all the other foibles that dumb 'smart card' (sic) ticketing throws at passengers. One could say that the travelling was as easy as it was when the train was first built!
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Post by spsmiler on Feb 25, 2019 22:52:33 GMT
Enjoy!
Simon
ps: I had also intended to include Liverpool Street station but it ran early and I arrived on the platform just about in time to see it passing through the station - and by the time I had retrieved my camcorder from my pocket its rear was just leaving the platform area.
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The heritage / vintage preserved 1938 tube stock train in action, seen at Baker Street, Moorgate, Kings Cross St Pancras and Ealing Common stations.
Footage at Moorgate was taken during the lunch break and includes S stock trains.
Ealing Common station is where the railtour ended and the footage includes the train opening and closing its doors plus the disc signal for trains entering the depot.
This will probably be the last time that this train travels on the subsurface Underground routes through Central London as they are about to be converted to computerised train operations and it will not be financially viable for this train to have the required equipment fitted (estimated cost: a whopping £1 million!)
However it will be able to operate on the Piccadilly and Bakerloo lines as they have not been converted to computerised train control and also the Metropolitan Line between Amersham and Harrow-on-The-Hill which is shared with trains operated by Chiltern Railways out of London's Marylebone station and as such remains as one of the last surviving jointly operated railway services here in the UK.
The reader's comments on my film of this event has been very interesting, one person told me that he was speaking with officials involved in its running and was told that things went so well that a repeat event might come to pass.
The desire is there but of course logistics will also help "the right people" decide if this proves to be possible.
I would guess that this means the train was full and was financially successful.
To an extent it helped that the weather was kind, although of course when underground who cares if it is raining, sleeting, snowing or the sun is shining!
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Post by kesmet on Feb 26, 2019 0:14:27 GMT
It would be interesting to take such a ride, should it happen again. (I missed out this time around.)
For anyone who couldn't make it, there is another opportunity to ride 1938 tube stock - on the Island Line on the Isle of Wight (as Class 483 stock). However, you may want to do so sooner rather than later - the stock is over 80 years old and getting on a bit, so really does need replacing for the Island Line to continue in passenger service. Indeed, there are suggestions that the Island Line could be operated, in the future, by Class 230 stock, also known as Vivarail's D-train. If it fits in the tunnel...
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Post by spsmiler on Feb 26, 2019 0:24:13 GMT
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Post by tjw on Feb 26, 2019 8:21:49 GMT
This will probably be the last time that this train travels on the subsurface Underground routes through Central London as they are about to be converted to computerised train operations and it will not be financially viable for this train to have the required equipment fitted (estimated cost: a whopping £1 million!)
Probably is the important word, never is a very long time. During Steam on the Met 2000 while looking after the 2 Chesham (Ashbury) carriages at Rickmansworth, we were told that they would never be allowed to run with passengers and a steam engine would never be permitted to run south of Finchley Road... Well that never was an exceedingly short space of time. The 1 million figure is meaningless as well... it is probably much less, it all depends on how you attribute costs. When the financial position of TFL improves who knows what will happen. |
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Post by John Tuthill on Feb 26, 2019 10:53:53 GMT
On the Isle of Wight? Not a chance. Due to height restrictions; thats why the I-o-W has been a 'living museum' for old LT tube stock  |
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Feb 26, 2019 11:01:34 GMT
The gauging issues on the Isle of Wight have been discussed in detail on the other thread, but Adrian Shooter (who is the man behind Vivarail) is on record as saying that the 230s will fit.
Unless there are serious proposals to run a Class 230 on LU metals, they are off topic for this thread though.
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Post by njr001 on Feb 26, 2019 14:04:18 GMT
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Post by spsmiler on Feb 26, 2019 20:55:00 GMT
This will probably be the last time that this train travels on the subsurface Underground routes through Central London as they are about to be converted to computerised train operations and it will not be financially viable for this train to have the required equipment fitted (estimated cost: a whopping £1 million!)
Probably is the important word, never is a very long time. During Steam on the Met 2000 while looking after the 2 Chesham (Ashbury) carriages at Rickmansworth, we were told that they would never be allowed to run with passengers and a steam engine would never be permitted to run south of Finchley Road... Well that never was an exceedingly short space of time. The 1 million figure is meaningless as well... it is probably much less, it all depends on how you attribute costs. When the financial position of TFL improves who knows what will happen. Actually, thats more reason to say 'never'... because things that are 'never' going to happen sometimes end up coming in to reality!
My thoughts are that whilst we know that the CBTC automated signalling system on the SSL network routes will be able to interact with trains that do not carry any special equipment (Uxbridge branch and Met Main Line to Amersham - with red / amber / green / blue colour light signals) will it have the ability to accept trains which have some onboard kit to ensure that the signalling system knows it is there - even when it does not have full control over that train?
Something like how the 1962 tube stock RAT trains can be used on the Central Line but in a more restrictive mode in that they are not allowed to pass the 'white light' aspect on colour light signals.
Of course the very concept of a steam locomotive that is even partly computer controlled will turn heads in amazement.
As an aside, looking forwards a few decades my thoughts are that for steam traction to survive outside of the few living museum railways this might have to happen on the 'big railway' with ECTS.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2019 21:11:52 GMT
Yes it could run in Protected Manual mode for the CBTC to see it as long as it had the necessary equipment installed on the train but to put that equipment on the train it might be cheaper to go the whole hog and install the rest of the equipment needed to run the train in Auto if the boffins can convert an analogue signal or mechanical input to a digital input to the VOBC's for the control of the train Vehicle On Board Controller
The train could run in a Restricted Manual mode but the train will have to be driven in line of sight signalling so maximum of 17KPH which they are not going to have during the normal running day
It could still run Rayners Lane to Uxbridge as conventional signalling will be retained for the Piccadilly, not sure on the bit where the Chilterns run on the 4 track north of Harrow On The Hill
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Post by Dstock7080 on Feb 27, 2019 8:23:37 GMT
The train could run in a Restricted Manual mode but the train will have to be driven in line of sight signalling so maximum of 17KPH which they are not going to have during the normal running day Unfortunately in Restricted Manual other than the drivers input there is no way to stop the train. Also ‘line of sight signalling’ will not be possible as there will be no lineside signals, just ‘RM limit of movement‘ boards at certain locations. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Feb 27, 2019 10:26:31 GMT
Also ‘line of sight signalling’ will not be possible as there will be no lineside signals, . I thought that's what Line of Sight driving meant - driving at a speed low enough that you can stop short of any obstruction - as you do with a tram (or indeed any road vehicle). |
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Post by ducatisti on Feb 27, 2019 10:49:30 GMT
I think the Germans have got a steam engine compatible with ERTMs (some kind of override on the regulator and presumably brake)
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Post by spsmiler on Feb 27, 2019 11:51:54 GMT
Definitely the train will be able to be used between Amersham and platform 2 at Harrow OTH. This is because this route will be used by Chiltern's services.
Tickets are now on sale for this train on 17th March.
I am hoping that these journeys are so profitable for the LTM that they feel a desire to run the train yet again - and that the funds raised are helpful in financing projects such as the sub-surface Q stock restoration. The expression "sweat the assets" comes to mind.
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Post by ducatisti on Feb 27, 2019 12:24:03 GMT
I'm not sure a few gentle trundles round the network followed by a long snooze in a warm shed counts as "sweating" any assets. I'd think most preserved stock gets used as much if not more.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2019 12:33:01 GMT
Also ‘line of sight signalling’ will not be possible as there will be no lineside signals, . I thought that's what Line of Sight driving meant - driving at a speed low enough that you can stop short of any obstruction - as you do with a tram (or indeed any road vehicle). Correct |
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Feb 27, 2019 19:12:15 GMT
My thoughts are that whilst we know that the CBTC automated signalling system on the SSL network routes will be able to interact with trains that do not carry any special equipment (Uxbridge branch and Met Main Line to Amersham - with red / amber / green / blue colour light signals) will it have the ability to accept trains which have some onboard kit to ensure that the signalling system knows it is there - even when it does not have full control over that train? Yes, they could be equipped like the Battery Locos are going to be. That has (at least for now) been varied out of scope. P.S. - It's yellow, not amber!! |
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Post by philthetube on Feb 28, 2019 3:08:02 GMT
Also ‘line of sight signalling’ will not be possible as there will be no lineside signals, . I thought that's what Line of Sight driving meant - driving at a speed low enough that you can stop short of any obstruction - as you do with a tram (or indeed any road vehicle). It does but you can't see if points are properly secured, driving in RM in an ATO area involves quite an involved and time consuming op for the signaller, I don't know what that involves, except they have to worry about points, routes and location of other trains before giving permission for the RM train to proceed. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2019 6:30:32 GMT
They will have a RS indication Route Secure this means all the points for the route will be locked and detected thus eliminating the need for clipping and scotching
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Post by muzer on Mar 16, 2019 18:28:24 GMT
Does anyone have any timings for tomorrow's runs, or which train number it will run as?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Mar 16, 2019 18:43:25 GMT
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Post by spsmiler on Mar 17, 2019 22:27:46 GMT
Well the 1938 TS came out to play today, and play it did - especially at the end of the day when the journey from Acton Town to Northfields was dropped and the train returned straight to Ruislip!
I was with other people waiting for it at South Ealing, one person had access to real-time train info on his smartphone and at first he thought that there had been a mistake, but after the timetabled time for the train to pass by us had passed we realised that what we had hoped was a mistake was actually accurate!
I'll share some footage of this train in action (earlier in the day) tomorrow, as so far I have not even downloaded it from the memory cards.
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