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Post by AndrewPSSP on Jun 14, 2017 9:50:58 GMT
Hello.  I understand that the Northern line's announcements were refreshed quite a bit of time ago, but as I was going into Embankment, I realised that the announcements for the interchange were considerably slower but when announcing the Riverboat and 'Please MtG...' the pace went back to normal. Is there any reason for slowing things down. Also, was there a reason to refresh the announcements, because IMO 'mainline' is still correct today, 'Circle and Hammersmith' is easy enough to understand and the 'National Rail' sounds like it has been recycled from the Jubilee line, did T fL really have to replace it? PLS. The sole reason I'm asking this question is because I always thought the 'mainline' and 'Circle and Hammersmith' announcements made the lane unique, just as the fact that the Jubilee was the only line to have a 3 people on the DVA, and also the fact that it was the only line to have a male announcer, and I'm slightly disappointed to see these unique features go.  |
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Post by countryman on Jun 14, 2017 12:54:04 GMT
I thought Embankment was the one atation that retained the original 'Mind the Gap' announcement in memory of the original voice actor.
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Post by Alight on Jun 14, 2017 13:41:06 GMT
The Northern line announcements were upgraded on some trains late 2015, and fully rolled out by May 2016. Here is my best summary of the changes:
-Termination message now places the via in brackets, which is read before the terminus (this results in the use of the passive "terminating at", which isn't ideal)
-Main Line replaced with "National rail services" (they forgot to capitalise the 'r')
-Circle & Hammersmith treated as two separate lines ('Hammersmith and City' is noticeably deeper. I don't think the system is able to use '&')
-Platform numbers re-recorded in a deeper tone (e.g. "from platform 2")
-Bank and Embankment stations re-recorded in their entirety (hence why they sound slower... they forgot to take the opportunity to shorten Docklands Light Railway to DLR)
-"and Metropolitan line" re-recorded at Moorgate (she sounds as though she is shouting it!)
-"Exit for riverboat services..." added to Embankment, London Bridge and Waterloo
-"Trains to" added in at Finchley Central (i.e. "Change here for trains to Mill Hill East")
-Waterloo upgraded for Night Tube mode; the interchange has been re-recorded to say "Change here for Jubilee line services" ("services" is notably quieter than the rest of the announcement)
As you can tell from the list, things were done a bit haphazardly. What's more, the opportunity wasn't taken to include 'London Overground'. They also didn't take the opportunity to make Moorfields Eye Hospital an "Exit here for."
While I am pleased they have made the effort to retain Celia and not try and introduce a completely new voice, I do not understand why she, as a professional voice over, is so pitchy! The "and National Rail services" and "Hammersmith & City" messages sound more in keeping with her already-existing "please mind the gap between the train and the platform" message, which was always deeper as it was introduced at a later date*, whereas the alterations to the termination messages sound slightly more in keeping with the original. The dreamy Bank message sounds like a half-way house.
*These may well have already been on file from when they attempted to upgrade the Northern line announcements back in the early '00s. Listen out in this clip: (0:22)
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Post by brigham on Jun 14, 2017 16:04:29 GMT
Yu still cannat beat NewCastle's "Stand Cleea of the Durrs, please".
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North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
Posts: 1,769
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Post by North End on Jun 14, 2017 21:30:37 GMT
Hello. I understand that the Northern line's announcements were refreshed quite a bit of time ago, but as I was going into Embankment, I realised that the announcements for the interchange were considerably slower but when announcing the Riverboat and 'Please MtG...' the pace went back to normal. Is there any reason for slowing things down. Also, was there a reason to refresh the announcements, because IMO 'mainline' is still correct today, 'Circle and Hammersmith' is easy enough to understand and the 'National Rail' sounds like it has been recycled from the Jubilee line, did T fL really have to replace it? PLS. The sole reason I'm asking this question is because I always thought the 'mainline' and 'Circle and Hammersmith' announcements made the lane unique, just as the fact that the Jubilee was the only line to have a 3 people on the DVA, and also the fact that it was the only line to have a male announcer, and I'm slightly disappointed to see these unique features go. A couple of thoughts: From overhearing conversations by those in the know, the main reason for the changes was to achieve accessibility compliance. I'm not sure exactly what is required, but I believe announcing interchanges on approach is one requirement. The Northern Line likes the original 'Celia' voice, therefore there was a reluctance to change it any more than necessary. An attempt was made to change it a few years ago, but was dropped at the time as it was felt the finished product was less good than what was already there. The latest change incorporates some bits from that attempt, so the current finished product is a meshing together of theee different sets of recordings. It's fair to say most train staff don't like what is there now. The announcements are too long so often don't finish before the driver is ready to close the doors, which is a pain. There is a way of trimming hem short, but it means pressing the PA button twice, which is a little too much effort, plus of course it means the destination isn't announced, which on the Northern is rather important. Also the newer voice is more annoying than what came before. There are a few drivers who dislike the system so much now that they will turn it off altogether and make their own announcements when they deem appropriate, or in a couple of cases the train will be treated to complete silence. |
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Post by Chris M on Jun 15, 2017 10:15:22 GMT
I thought Embankment was the one atation that retained the original 'Mind the Gap' announcement in memory of the original voice actor. That's an announcement played on the platforms, the rest of the thread is about announcements played on trains. |
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Post by AndrewPSSP on Jun 15, 2017 15:02:14 GMT
Thanks for the replies. I read the post by Alight in which he writes: 'Termination message now places the via in brackets, which is read before the terminus (this results in the use of the passive "terminating at", which isn't ideal)'. I sort of understand why they changed 'mainline' to National Rail, but I don't understand why they had to change the termination message as well. I feel that it takes a lot longer to announce and that Celia's voice sounds strained, in the same way that I feel that Parnell sounds like she has gotten bored of announcing on the S Stock when she says Uxbridge.
Also, countryman mentioned that Embankment northbound is the only platform on the whole of the network to retain the original 'Mind the Gap' message, but in a video by spsmiler it also has a 'Stand Clear of the Doors, please' announcement as well. When LU revived this announcement at the request of his wife, could they not retrieve the 'SCotD' announcement, or where the station dwell time so varied that it would usually play too early or too late?
Video:
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Post by Alight on Jun 15, 2017 15:22:16 GMT
It is a shame the 'stand clear of the doors, please' was dropped. I suspect whoever reinstated it simply followed the instruction to retain 'mind the gap', with no obligation to include the 'stand clear...' message. Thanks for the replies. I read the post by Alight in which he writes: 'Termination message now places the via in brackets, which is read before the terminus (this results in the use of the passive "terminating at", which isn't ideal)'. I sort of understand why they changed 'mainline' to National Rail, but I don't understand why they had to change the termination message as well. I feel that it takes a lot longer to announce and that Celia's voice sounds strained, in the same way that I feel that Parnell sounds like she has gotten bored of announcing on the S Stock when she says Uxbridge. I heard the main reason for switching it around is because it makes more logical sense for those unfamiliar with the Northern line (e.g. tourists). We are on a Northern line train, it is travelling via Bank and will complete its journey at Morden. The Northern Line likes the original 'Celia' voice, therefore there was a reluctance to change it any more than necessary. An attempt was made to change it a few years ago, but was dropped at the time as it was felt the finished product was less good than what was already there. The latest change incorporates some bits from that attempt, so the current finished product is a meshing together of theee different sets of recordings. It's fair to say most train staff don't like what is there now. The announcements are too long so often don't finish before the driver is ready to close the doors, which is a pain. There is a way of trimming hem short, but it means pressing the PA button twice, which is a little too much effort, plus of course it means the destination isn't announced, which on the Northern is rather important. Also the newer voice is more annoying than what came before. There are a few drivers who dislike the system so much now that they will turn it off altogether and make their own announcements when they deem appropriate, or in a couple of cases the train will be treated to complete silence. Thank you, I had a feeling the Northern line management were keen to retain Celia. If it was me, I would have used the newer Celia recordings from the earlier attempt and stuck with those for consistency - at least it was still Celia, albeit slightly deeper in tone. Or failing that, they could have ditched the last attempt recordings and re-recorded 'Hammersmith and City' and 'National Rail services' with the newer batch of files, because at least the newer batch sounds slightly closer to the original. I think we can all conclude the execution of the new announcements has been poor, even though I agree with the principle to retain Celia. I wouldn't say I have been on any Northern line trains where the driver has cut off the announcements, and I use the Northern line a lot! |
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Post by jmm on Jun 15, 2017 15:39:38 GMT
It is a shame the 'stand clear of the doors, please' was dropped. I suspect whoever reinstated it simply followed the instruction to retain 'mind the gap', with no obligation to include the 'stand clear...' message. Thanks for the replies. I read the post by Alight in which he writes: 'Termination message now places the via in brackets, which is read before the terminus (this results in the use of the passive "terminating at", which isn't ideal)'. I sort of understand why they changed 'mainline' to National Rail, but I don't understand why they had to change the termination message as well. I feel that it takes a lot longer to announce and that Celia's voice sounds strained, in the same way that I feel that Parnell sounds like she has gotten bored of announcing on the S Stock when she says Uxbridge. I heard the main reason for switching it around is because it makes more logical sense for those unfamiliar with the Northern line (e.g. tourists). We are on a Northern line train, it is travelling via Bank and will complete its journey at Morden. As a tourist, and when I was unfamiliar with the Northern Line (well, the whole LU), the previous way was perfectly manageable for a 12 YO whose english was quite limited at the time. That reasoning is OK for lines that share tracks, such as the SSR. But the Northern Line is self-contained, and the only way to get there is through a series of corridors in which there are a lot of signs that make very clear which line are you heading to. In this case, my feeling is that the change was unnecessary and that the final result is worse than the previous version. |
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Post by MoreToJack on Jun 15, 2017 15:46:55 GMT
It is a shame the 'stand clear of the doors, please' was dropped. I suspect whoever reinstated it simply followed the instruction to retain 'mind the gap', with no obligation to include the 'stand clear...' message. My understanding is that it was seen as a SPAD trap for the driver. Hearing 'Stand clear of the doors' could cause a driver to close the doors and motor up whilst the station starter* was still at red. It's unlikely, but it's not impossible. For the same reason, staff performing SATS (Station Assistant Train Services; platform dwell-time management) duties are expected to check the station starter** prior to raising their baton and making similar 'mind the doors'-style announcements. It also presents potential PTI (platform-train interface) problems - passengers could rush for the doors when they're not going to close, or a train could sit in the platform with the doors closed for a few extra moments. On the face of it, it perhaps sounds like namby-pamby H&S, but all of these possibilities have and do happen. As nice as nostalgia is, it's important to also keep moving forwards. *Obviously in the case of the Northern line, replace with 'target point'. In theory(!) nothing should happen if the ATO Start buttons are pressed, but there could be issues in both RM and PM. **Again, on ATO lines, this may not be a conventional signal or platform repeater. On the Northern and Jubilee lines it's the white RTDI (Ready-to-depart indicator), on the Central line it's either the starting signal or 'Mind The Doors' on the train describers, and on the Victoria line it's either the starting signal or a white light repurposed from the original signalling system. |
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Post by MoreToJack on Jun 15, 2017 15:48:54 GMT
It is a shame the 'stand clear of the doors, please' was dropped. I suspect whoever reinstated it simply followed the instruction to retain 'mind the gap', with no obligation to include the 'stand clear...' message. I heard the main reason for switching it around is because it makes more logical sense for those unfamiliar with the Northern line (e.g. tourists). We are on a Northern line train, it is travelling via Bank and will complete its journey at Morden. As a tourist, and when I was unfamiliar with the Northern Line (well, the whole LU), the previous way was perfectly manageable for a 12 YO whose english was quite limited at the time. That reasoning is OK for lines that share tracks, such as the SSR. But the Northern Line is self-contained, and the only way to get there is through a series of corridors in which there are a lot of signs that make very clear which line are you heading to. In this case, my feeling is that the change was unnecessary and that the final result is worse than the previous version. The wording perhaps isn't ideal, but it is clearer - if not longer - for those who are unfamiliar with the system. I have genuinely been asked where "Mordernviabank" is! |
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Post by North End on Jun 15, 2017 16:14:13 GMT
It is a shame the 'stand clear of the doors, please' was dropped. I suspect whoever reinstated it simply followed the instruction to retain 'mind the gap', with no obligation to include the 'stand clear...' message. My understanding is that it was seen as a SPAD trap for the driver. Hearing 'Stand clear of the doors' could cause a driver to close the doors and motor up whilst the station starter* was still at red. It's unlikely, but it's not impossible. For the same reason, staff performing SATS (Station Assistant Train Services; platform dwell-time management) duties are expected to check the station starter** prior to raising their baton and making similar 'mind the doors'-style announcements. It also presents potential PTI (platform-train interface) problems - passengers could rush for the doors when they're not going to close, or a train could sit in the platform with the doors closed for a few extra moments. On the face of it, it perhaps sounds like namby-pamby H&S, but all of these possibilities have and do happen. As nice as nostalgia is, it's important to also keep moving forwards. *Obviously in the case of the Northern line, replace with 'target point'. In theory(!) nothing should happen if the ATO Start buttons are pressed, but there could be issues in both RM and PM. **Again, on ATO lines, this may not be a conventional signal or platform repeater. On the Northern and Jubilee lines it's the white RTDI (Ready-to-depart indicator), on the Central line it's either the starting signal or 'Mind The Doors' on the train describers, and on the Victoria line it's either the starting signal or a white light repurposed from the original signalling system. The train won't move in PM, luckily so as drivers have (unfortunately but understandably) got into the habit of looking at the countdown but not the limit of movement authority. However people who have driven under signals still look up to check the non-existent starting signal though. Personally I'd welcome a red/blue starting signal at every platform, but I can understand why this would be expensive compared to the value it would bring - a "nice to have" not an essential feature. With today's technology the stand clear of doors message could be tied in to the signalling quite easily, we could have it at every platform then when the countdown reaches 8 seconds! As to the question of via, personally I much preferred the old way. That'a how things have always been, and I've never known it cause issues. The inside of the trains are now inconsistent with the platform indicators, platform signage and the destination indicator on the front of the train. Just doesn't work for me. |
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Post by phoenixcronin on Jun 16, 2017 15:57:04 GMT
Also the newer voice is more annoying than what came before. There are a few drivers who dislike the system so much now that they will turn it off altogether and make their own announcements when they deem appropriate, or in a couple of cases the train will be treated to complete silence. That will get them into trouble post 2020... |
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Post by roman80 on Jun 16, 2017 18:53:49 GMT
[/quote]That will get them into trouble post 2020...
[/quote]
One hopes a law comes soon to limit the decibel level and repetitiveness of platform announcements. I actually find the trains themselves a nice respite from the din on every single platform on the system. How many times must we be told the same information which is usually basic common sense?
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