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Post by holborncentral on Oct 18, 2017 15:38:07 GMT
Not sure if this is the right place on the forum to post about this, but there are proposals to upgrade Holborn station, including building a new entrance, adding lifts to the existing Kingsway entrance and redoing some of the passenger tunnels, including reusing an Aldwych platform. consultations.tfl.gov.uk/tube/holborn-station-upgrade/Thoughts? Personally I think it sounds like a good idea as long as they keep the old tiling of the Aldwych platform, the only original features remaining inside the station. I wonder what they'll do with the other disused platform, the one that was later used as a 'hostel' for immigrants in the 50s?
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Post by rapidtransitman on Oct 18, 2017 15:45:24 GMT
holborncentralI quite like the idea of keeping the old tiling of the Aldwych platform. Hopefully it will be possible, and cost effective.
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Post by holborncentral on Oct 18, 2017 16:25:48 GMT
holborncentral I quite like the idea of keeping the old tiling of the Aldwych platform. Hopefully it will be possible, and cost effective. It would look good if they did that. They could at least recreate the pattern and the name on the tiles,like they did when they redid Mornington Crescent (I win!) As for the old 'hostel' what do you think will become of that? That was a disused platform before conversion.
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Post by superteacher on Oct 18, 2017 16:39:28 GMT
holborncentral I quite like the idea of keeping the old tiling of the Aldwych platform. Hopefully it will be possible, and cost effective. It would look good if they did that. They could at least recreate the pattern and the name on the tiles,like they did when they redid Mornington Crescent (I win!) As for the old 'hostel' what do you think will become of that? That was a disused platform before conversion. Sadly, the current trend with regards to refurbishments seems to prefer the clinical style.
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Post by holborncentral on Oct 18, 2017 16:42:05 GMT
It would look good if they did that. They could at least recreate the pattern and the name on the tiles,like they did when they redid Mornington Crescent (I win!) As for the old 'hostel' what do you think will become of that? That was a disused platform before conversion. Sadly, the current trend with regards to refurbishments seems to prefer the clinical style. which is a shame because the tiles on the Aldwych platform are the only internal remnants of the station's Leslie Green origins. It was changed completely after they built the redesigned entrance (Charles Holden style)?Plus the Aldwych branch is an important part of Underground history. Even a replica of the original tiling pattern would be alright.
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Post by John Tuthill on Oct 18, 2017 17:18:48 GMT
It would look good if they did that. They could at least recreate the pattern and the name on the tiles,like they did when they redid Mornington Crescent (I win!) As for the old 'hostel' what do you think will become of that? That was a disused platform before conversion. Sadly, the current trend with regards to refurbishments seems to prefer the clinical style. Holden and Pick will be turning in their graves
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Post by holborncentral on Oct 18, 2017 17:52:10 GMT
Sadly, the current trend with regards to refurbishments seems to prefer the clinical style. Holden and Pick will be turning in their graves They would be. The clinical style appeals to those who like doctors or dentists surgeries, but I think the older designs should be kept as much as possible. The new Tottenham Court Road is an example of the clinical style. I like the Charles Holden stations but a lot of the Leslie Green ones still have some original features and the tiling patterns on the platforms.
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Post by theblackferret on Oct 18, 2017 17:53:42 GMT
Not sure if this is the right place on the forum to post about this, but there are proposals to upgrade Holborn station, including building a new entrance, adding lifts to the existing Kingsway entrance and redoing some of the passenger tunnels, including reusing an Aldwych platform. consultations.tfl.gov.uk/tube/holborn-station-upgrade/Thoughts? Personally I think it sounds like a good idea as long as they keep the old tiling of the Aldwych platform, the only original features remaining inside the station. I wonder what they'll do with the other disused platform, the one that was later used as a 'hostel' for immigrants in the 50s? If at all possible, any refurbished Aldwych platform should conform strictly to Leslie Green's originals. Fat chance! So, why not recreate various tiling schemes as a walkthrough tourist attraction between Holborn & Aldwych, as it ain't gonna see trains again?
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Post by holborncentral on Oct 18, 2017 18:04:35 GMT
Not sure if this is the right place on the forum to post about this, but there are proposals to upgrade Holborn station, including building a new entrance, adding lifts to the existing Kingsway entrance and redoing some of the passenger tunnels, including reusing an Aldwych platform. consultations.tfl.gov.uk/tube/holborn-station-upgrade/Thoughts? Personally I think it sounds like a good idea as long as they keep the old tiling of the Aldwych platform, the only original features remaining inside the station. I wonder what they'll do with the other disused platform, the one that was later used as a 'hostel' for immigrants in the 50s? If at all possible, any refurbished Aldwych platform should conform strictly to Leslie Green's originals. Fat chance! So, why not recreate various tiling schemes as a walkthrough tourist attraction between Holborn & Aldwych, as it ain't gonna see trains again? I like the sound of this. Keep Aldwych station as it is but make the tunnels into a tourist attraction. It could be an interesting museum of LU history, a monument (no pun intended)to Leslie Green's station design. Perhaps they could use part of the platform as a new passenger concourse and the other bit going into the tunnel as the walkway? Or is this getting a bit Farfetch'd?
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Post by MoreToJack on Oct 18, 2017 18:11:54 GMT
It would look good if they did that. They could at least recreate the pattern and the name on the tiles,like they did when they redid Mornington Crescent (I win!)  As for the old 'hostel' what do you think will become of that? That was a disused platform before conversion. Sadly, the current trend with regards to refurbishments seems to prefer the clinical style. Actually, that's not strictly true - let's take Holland Park for example. Although there is a large sprinkling of white tiling it is not in the same style as many of the other refurbs, and is sympathetic to the station's heritage. Many other heritage features have also been retained - including original enamel signage and new, replica 1950s friezes - and all in all its a very good job. There is a team within LU who work with projects teams on things like this, and they're very passionate about what they do. In some scenarios, yes: clinical white is the way forward - but in others a more bespoke solution can be found. As long as we don't get a repeat of the hideous faux mosaic at King's Cross I'm happy. 😂
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Post by MoreToJack on Oct 18, 2017 18:15:15 GMT
If at all possible, any refurbished Aldwych platform should conform strictly to Leslie Green's originals. Fat chance! So, why not recreate various tiling schemes as a walkthrough tourist attraction between Holborn & Aldwych, as it ain't gonna see trains again? I like the sound of this. Keep Aldwych station as it is but make the tunnels into a tourist attraction. It could be an interesting museum of LU history, a monument (no pun intended)to Leslie Green's station design. Perhaps they could use part of the platform as a new passenger concourse and the other bit going into the tunnel as the walkway? Or is this getting a bit Farfetch'd? Let's stick to the actual proposals and consultation, folks: more than happy for a new thread discussing possible ideas for the Aldwych branch over on the RIPAS boards, however.
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Post by superteacher on Oct 18, 2017 18:29:48 GMT
Sadly, the current trend with regards to refurbishments seems to prefer the clinical style. Actually, that's not strictly true - let's take Holland Park for example. Although there is a large sprinkling of white tiling it is not in the same style as many of the other refurbs, and is sympathetic to the station's heritage. Many other heritage features have also been retained - including original enamel signage and new, replica 1950s friezes - and all in all its a very good job. There is a team within LU who work with projects teams on things like this, and they're very passionate about what they do. In some scenarios, yes: clinical white is the way forward - but in others a more bespoke solution can be found. As long as we don't get a repeat of the hideous faux mosaic at King's Cross I'm happy. 😂 Point taken regarding Holland Park - but it no longer has the feel of the pre refurbished station. Maybe it’s just progress, or me being overly nostalgic!
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Post by holborncentral on Oct 18, 2017 18:51:39 GMT
I like the sound of this. Keep Aldwych station as it is but make the tunnels into a tourist attraction. It could be an interesting museum of LU history, a monument (no pun intended)to Leslie Green's station design. Perhaps they could use part of the platform as a new passenger concourse and the other bit going into the tunnel as the walkway? Or is this getting a bit Farfetch'd? Let's stick to the actual proposals and consultation, folks: more than happy for a new thread discussing possible ideas for the Aldwych branch over on the RIPAS boards, however.Good idea. I'd be more happy to start up a thread over there and get people talking!information. Keep it separate from the main thread.
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Oct 18, 2017 19:36:21 GMT
There is a team within LU who work with projects teams on things like this, and they're very passionate about what they do. One less member soon! --- Wrt to the white tiling. maybe the perception is such because some of the recent station refurbs have been at stations which already had white tiling, or nothing authentic left of more decorative tiling left? The CLR, for example, went for white tiling. And TCR lost its original tiling with the stationwide mural in the 80s. It would be inappropriate on the former, and incongruous for the latter, to put up Lesley Green style tiling; even though the latter had some somewhere at one point. It would absolutely be crucial though to emphasise the importance of what remains at Holborn to TfL for any proposed redevelopment. Fingers crossed it can remain. Another point - the ability to have a 'period' set for filming in Aldwych will be lost. Presumably that will mean that in the medium term TfL will seek to dispose of the station property. What then happens to the booking hall.
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Post by theblackferret on Oct 18, 2017 19:38:43 GMT
Let's stick to the actual proposals and consultation, folks: more than happy for a new thread discussing possible ideas for the Aldwych branch over on the RIPAS boards, however. Good idea. I'd be more happy to start up a thread over there and get people talking!information. Keep it separate from the main thread. All done! Walkies!!
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Post by holborncentral on Oct 18, 2017 21:33:02 GMT
There is a team within LU who work with projects teams on things like this, and they're very passionate about what they do. One less member soon! --- Wrt to the white tiling. maybe the perception is such because some of the recent station refurbs have been at stations which already had white tiling, or nothing authentic left of more decorative tiling left? The CLR, for example, went for white tiling. And TCR lost its original tiling with the stationwide mural in the 80s. It would be inappropriate on the former, and incongruous for the latter, to put up Lesley Green style tiling; even though the latter had some somewhere at one point. It would absolutely be crucial though to emphasise the importance of what remains at Holborn to TfL for any proposed redevelopment. Fingers crossed it can remain. Another point - the ability to have a 'period' set for filming in Aldwych will be lost. Presumably that will mean that in the medium term TfL will seek to dispose of the station property. What then happens to the booking hall. Hmm, that's an interesting point. I never thought of that. As far as I know the original white tiling of the CLR (now the Central Line) can only be seen at Lancaster Gate station, but I may be wrong on that, and I believe there are remnants left in the old British Museum station on the route between TCR and Holborn. The all white tiling is very reminiscent of some of the Paris Metro stations.Was TCR originally a Leslie Green station? In that link I posted earlier before the thread got moved there is a link to a survey run by TfL where you can have your say on the Holborn upgrades. Perhaps it might be worth mentioning the Aldwych platform in it. Good point about the film set thing. At the moment film crews can use Aldwych for 'period' filming and Charing Cross Jubilee line for a more modern LU station set.
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Post by bananaman on Oct 19, 2017 8:23:30 GMT
which is a shame because the tiles on the Aldwych platform are the only internal remnants of the station's Leslie Green origins. It was changed completely after they built the redesigned entrance (Charles Holden style)?Plus the Aldwych branch is an important part of Underground history. Even a replica of the original tiling pattern would be alright. The original tiling also still exists in the old spiral staircase, which is still in use for staff access.
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Post by holborncentral on Oct 19, 2017 17:02:58 GMT
which is a shame because the tiles on the Aldwych platform are the only internal remnants of the station's Leslie Green origins. It was changed completely after they built the redesigned entrance (Charles Holden style)?Plus the Aldwych branch is an important part of Underground history. Even a replica of the original tiling pattern would be alright. The original tiling also still exists in the old spiral staircase, which is still in use for staff access. In Holborn? Wonder what they will do with that staircase if the upgrade plans go ahead?
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Post by holborncentral on Oct 19, 2017 19:54:39 GMT
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Post by holborncentral on Dec 2, 2017 1:01:30 GMT
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Post by malcolmffc on Dec 5, 2017 7:16:49 GMT
Nobody in their right mind would interchange at Holborn to go one stop east on the Central Line. From Chancery Lane station entrance by Staple Inn to the corner of Red Lion St is about 350 yards level walk taking about 5 minutes. I used to work in the tubeless area around Theobalds Rd, a lot of which is accessible from Russell Square. A Proctor St entrance would be useful for that, but at what cost? A better and cheaper expedient might be to travelate the Tram Tunnel to the end of Theobalds Rd. Much of the Holborn problem stems from it being an awkward late interchange spatchcocked into an extant Picc station and a Central Line tunnel some 30 years after the opening of the CLR. The absurdly narrow pedestrian stairs from the Central WB are an example of this. So LU should minimise the incentives to use the station! So are you suggesting LU do nothing about Holborn Stn? I've not used it in a long while but I did use it in the AM peak a few years back and it was horrific. I suspect, being generous, the station is on the border of being compliant with fire regulation evacuation times in the peaks due to the excessive crowding and slow movement through corridors. The current situation is not sustainable if there is any more growth. The planned upgrade of the Picc Line, if it happens, will bring in many more people. Even if Crossrail provides relief to the Central Line we know the eventual trend is that the Central will fill back up again. Given Crossrail has no stn in the vicinity of Holborn it is reasonable to assume that people may change at TCR and then continue on to Holborn on the Central but we'll have to see if that pans out. Trying to "force" people to use other stations is not very popular - especially if people so no eventual gain or improvement. It's been tolerated at TCR and to some extent Bond St with Holborn and Ox Circus taking the brunt of diverted passengers with all the ensuing delays and congestion. I can't see people being willing to use Chancery Lane just because TfL say "Holborn's too busy and btw we're not doing anything to make it better". To be honest, given TfL's financial pressures, I'm surprised TfL are progressing capacity works at Holborn. London Reconnections has pointed out that the Piccadilly line upgrade would be unviable with the Holborn as it currently is given the large increase in passengers.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Dec 31, 2017 17:50:04 GMT
Not directly related to the upgrade, but Londonist have published a video showing behind the scenes of the escalators and refurbishment works to escalators at Holborn.
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Post by holborncentral on Dec 31, 2017 18:27:30 GMT
I got a notification on my phone about that video while I was out. I'll go and watch it now and then tell you what I think Looks interesting. Just what I need to perk me up after a disastrous day. I just broke one of the doors on the freezer
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Post by John Tuthill on Dec 31, 2017 19:59:02 GMT
Not directly related to the upgrade, but Londonist have published a video showing behind the scenes of the escalators and refurbishment works to escalators at Holborn. A very interesting and instructive video. Should be compulsive viewing for all those travellers who complain about the 'inconvenience' they have to put up with.
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Post by countryman on Dec 31, 2017 20:20:38 GMT
Not directly related to the upgrade, but Londonist have published a video showing behind the scenes of the escalators and refurbishment works to escalators at Holborn. A very interesting and instructive video. Should be compulsive viewing for all those travellers who complain about the 'inconvenience' they have to put up with. Do you mean compulsive or compulsory? ?
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Post by holborncentral on Dec 31, 2017 20:44:09 GMT
Not directly related to the upgrade, but Londonist have published a video showing behind the scenes of the escalators and refurbishment works to escalators at Holborn. A very interesting and instructive video. Should be compulsive viewing for all those travellers who complain about the 'inconvenience' they have to put up with. I've just watched it. Certainly an interesting video. I was fascinated by escalators as a kid. I used to go to a shopping centre which had and still has a long transparent one and when I was about 7 or 8 I used to stand and watch it go up. I don't know why I found them so interesting. Do you mean it should be compulsive or compulsory viewing for people?
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Post by John Tuthill on Dec 31, 2017 21:19:47 GMT
A very interesting and instructive video. Should be compulsive viewing for all those travellers who complain about the 'inconvenience' they have to put up with. I've just watched it. Certainly an interesting video. I was fascinated by escalators as a kid. I used to go to a shopping centre which had and still has a long transparent one and when I was about 7 or 8 I used to stand and watch it go up. I don't know why I found them so interesting. Do you mean it should be compulsive or compulsory viewing for people? Yes teacher, it shoulf be compulsory! HNY
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Post by holborncentral on Dec 31, 2017 21:24:12 GMT
I've just watched it. Certainly an interesting video. I was fascinated by escalators as a kid. I used to go to a shopping centre which had and still has a long transparent one and when I was about 7 or 8 I used to stand and watch it go up. I don't know why I found them so interesting. Do you mean it should be compulsive or compulsory viewing for people? Yes teacher, it shoulf be compulsory! HNY Exactly But if it should be compulsory, how would you get people to watch it? Send them the link to it and make sure they look at it or stand over them while they're watching it? Or share it on social media? Happy New Year
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Post by John Tuthill on Dec 31, 2017 21:39:46 GMT
Yes teacher, it shoulf be compulsory! HNY Exactly But if it should be compulsory, how would you get people to watch it? Send them the link to it and make sure they look at it or stand over them while they're watching it? Or share it on social media? Happy New Year I'm beginning to get a headache, and I haven't touched a drop yet! ;)Have screens on the platforms, free DVDs,run the commentary on the trains instead of:"The next station is..........."(Where's that scotch?)
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Post by holborncentral on Dec 31, 2017 21:58:24 GMT
Exactly But if it should be compulsory, how would you get people to watch it? Send them the link to it and make sure they look at it or stand over them while they're watching it? Or share it on social media? Happy New Year I'm beginning to get a headache, and I haven't touched a drop yet! ;)Have screens on the platforms, free DVDs,run the commentary on the trains instead of:"The next station is..........."(Where's that scotch?) Oh dear. Sorry about that! I like your way of thinking Make sure it gets through, as long as they pay attention. That could be a bit of a problem. It's like when lecturers try to keep students interested in what they are talking about. Some of mine make it mandatory to attend classes. Don't drink too many!
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