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Post by trc666 on Feb 8, 2018 19:11:02 GMT
What's the current state of play with the 67 stock units that were at Eastleigh and Acton (excluding DM 3052 which is preserved at the LTM depot), are any units still at these locations or have they all been scrapped?
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Post by Chris W on Feb 8, 2018 20:34:34 GMT
Ignoring the, now cancelled AIT, as far as I'm aware, all the Eastleigh 67TS cars have gone.
There are a few 67TS cars around and being utilised, however none that are likely to travel around the LU network again, unless they are to be collected by the odd-trailer en route to the scrapman.
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Post by up1989 on Feb 14, 2018 21:09:28 GMT
There’s a unit at London road depot slowly collecting dust
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Post by seaeagle on Mar 14, 2018 15:07:07 GMT
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Post by Dstock7080 on Mar 14, 2018 15:59:09 GMT
This picture of a 67 stock car/s has just been posted on FB, no idea of which cars they are. MPU Motive Power Units 1967/1972 Tube Stock 3022+3122 (ex-‘72 3320) Acton Town 25 siding
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Post by d7666 on Mar 19, 2018 0:19:06 GMT
Is anyone able to offer a real non-speculative reason why this retains 3xxx car numbers and not re-numbered into 'engineers' series such a Lxxx or MPUxxx?
OK maybe only trainspotter OCD categorisation actually requires it to be renumbered, but I'm more interested in knowing why LU requires it not. After all, it is more of a "locomotive" than the 1960 tune cars are!
-- Nick
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2018 18:19:40 GMT
Is anyone able to offer a real non-speculative reason why this retains 3xxx car numbers and not re-numbered into 'engineers' series such a Lxxx or MPUxxx? OK maybe only trainspotter OCD categorisation actually requires it to be renumbered, but I'm more interested in knowing why LU requires it not. After all, it is more of a "locomotive" than the 1960 tune cars are! -- Nick Because currently they do not have a use. They were to be MPU, but that was scrapped. They were then going to be used for hauling 92TS units to acton works during service, but that was scrapped when someone had the idea to do movements at night. Now there is talk of the 4 cars being used for something else, but no one can agree. They are to be semi finished, then put in Neasden somewhere for storage (most likely where the A stock currently is when its sent for scrap). If it is renumbered, it will be done once a use is found.
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Post by d7666 on Mar 19, 2018 20:09:35 GMT
Is anyone able to offer a real non-speculative reason why this retains 3xxx car numbers and not re-numbered into 'engineers' series such a Lxxx or MPUxxx? OK maybe only trainspotter OCD categorisation actually requires it to be renumbered, but I'm more interested in knowing why LU requires it not. After all, it is more of a "locomotive" than the 1960 tune cars are! -- Nick Because currently they do not have a use. They were to be MPU, but that was scrapped. They were then going to be used for hauling 92TS units to acton works during service, but that was scrapped when someone had the idea to do movements at night. Now there is talk of the 4 cars being used for something else, but no one can agree. They are to be semi finished, then put in Neasden somewhere for storage (most likely where the A stock currently is when its sent for scrap). If it is renumbered, it will be done once a use is found. heh that's a very obvious valid point now you state it, no current defined use implies no meaningful numbers. d'oh obvious in hindsight! -- Nick
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Post by MoreToJack on Mar 19, 2018 22:26:07 GMT
Even then there's no guarantees that they will get renumbered, and I'd personally posit that there's really no need beyond some sort of tradition for having engineers' vehicles in a different series. Even this tradition hasn't been continued since the late 1980s!
None of the vehicles in the AIT have been renumbered, despite that train being "close" to completion before placed under review.
None of the vehicles in the Central line RATs have been renumbered, nor indeed were any of the cars used in the previous pilot motor units.
None of the vehicles in use in the Metropolitan line A stock RAT were renumbered; since 2012 it has been dedicated units, whilst the actual Sandite trailer was dedicated many years ago and, perhaps, should have been renumbered like the dedicated Track Recording Vehicle (666) if these sequences actually mattered.
None of the vehicles in the new Metropolitan line D78 stock RATs have been renumbered, again despite the vehicles being close to completion.
Besides: TfL has no money. It's not as simple as slapping a new sticker on the side, changing the numbers fleetingly carries significant additional cost.
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Post by fish7373 on Mar 19, 2018 23:20:50 GMT
The TRV number 666 is part of its top`s number which Was part of BR it was the only underground car allowed to run on british railways, Why the car is fitted with buckeye couplers and 27 way blue star control jumpers.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2018 9:54:07 GMT
The planned numbers for the MPUs were L159-L162. That was before the Tunnel Cleaning Train was cancelled.
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Post by programmes1 on Mar 21, 2018 12:04:33 GMT
The planned numbers for the MPUs were L159-L162. That was before the Tunnel Cleaning Train was cancelled. Reg, Do you know which cars were to be given those numbers?
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Post by miff on Mar 21, 2018 14:49:49 GMT
It's interesting that when the AIT project was abandoned it was decided to overhaul the 1960-stock Pilot Motors for continued use with the TRV, rather than make use of these MPUs or the motive-power elements of the AIT. No doubt there is a very good reason.
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Post by fish7373 on Mar 21, 2018 19:15:18 GMT
It's interesting that when the AIT project was abandoned it was decided to overhaul the 1960-stock Pilot Motors for continued use with the TRV, rather than make use of these MPUs or the motive-power elements of the AIT. No doubt there is a very good reason. The MPUs are not fitted with buckeye couplers may be the reason.
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Post by crusty54 on Mar 21, 2018 20:30:16 GMT
This picture of a 67 stock car/s has just been posted on FB, no idea of which cars they are. MPU Motive Power Units 1967/1972 Tube Stock 3022+3122 (ex-‘72 3320) Acton Town 25 siding Stabled with 2 Cravens units there this evening
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2018 13:42:03 GMT
The planned numbers for the MPUs were L159-L162. That was before the Tunnel Cleaning Train was cancelled. Reg, Do you know which cars were to be given those numbers? Sorry, slight error in my original post. The numbers proposed for the Tunnel Cleaning Train MPUs were: L158 – ex-1972 MkI 3122 turned D to A L159 – ex-1967 3022 turned A to D L160 – ex-1972 MkI 3107 L161 – ex-1967 3007 The planned formation was to have been L158-L159+3x2 TCU+L161-L160 TCU = Tunnel Cleaning Unit. Whether the same numbers will remain in the plan I have no idea – I guess it all depends if they are eventually put to further use for something or other (or not).
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2018 16:05:15 GMT
Reg, Do you know which cars were to be given those numbers? Sorry, slight error in my original post. The numbers proposed for the Tunnel Cleaning Train MPUs were: L158 – ex-1972 MkI 3122 turned D to A L159 – ex-1967 3022 turned A to D L160 – ex-1972 MkI 3107 L161 – ex-1967 3007 The planned formation was to have been L158-L159+3x2 TCU+L161-L160 TCU = Tunnel Cleaning Unit. Whether the same numbers will remain in the plan I have no idea – I guess it all depends if they are eventually put to further use for something or other (or not). That I did not know. 72mk1's mixed in?
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Post by norbitonflyer on Mar 25, 2018 17:46:00 GMT
When the 1972 Mk1 stock was withdrawn from the Northern Line, a number of 4 car units were used to increase the available fleet on the Victoria Line. Because they were not fitted with ATO, the DMs could only be formed in the middle of trains, so a similar number of 1967 stock units were split, each half being paired with half a 1972 stock unit. The ex-1972 cars were difficult to identify, as they were renumbered to match the 1967 DMs they were paired with (some 1967 DMs were themselves renumbered as their numbers had been taken by the renumbered 1972 cars, if you see what I mean) I don't know it was a deliberate choice to use two 1972 cars for the TCU, but the fact that they went to the trouble of converting one of them from D to A, resulting in both end cars of the TCU being 1972 cars, is suggestive.
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Post by bigvern on Mar 25, 2018 18:27:57 GMT
The reason 72 stock cars from the Victoria line were used for the MPVs and other cars 72ts were retained at Eastleigh was the fact of the driving controls being standard with deadman, the 67 DMS only had vigilance button, and were designed more for ATO operation, braking and traction systems were operationally different, and the driving technique would be different, that's why as many 72 cars from the Vic line were retained initially for engineering vehicles because if this, as anyone with 72ts knowledge can drive them.
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Post by fish7373 on Mar 25, 2018 19:50:59 GMT
The reason 72 stock cars from the Victoria line were used for the MPVs and other cars 72ts were retained at Eastleigh was the fact of the driving controls being standard with deadman, the 67 DMS only had vigilance button, and were designed more for ATO operation, braking and traction systems were operationally different, and the driving technique would be different, that's why as many 72 cars from the Vic line were retained initially for engineering vehicles because if this, as anyone with 72ts knowledge can drive them.
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Post by metman on Mar 25, 2018 20:19:05 GMT
Thanks for the photos showing the difference between the handles.
I wonder what happened to the 3 car units from the 1972mk1 stock when the four car sets were inserted into the 1967 stock?
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Post by bigvern on Mar 25, 2018 21:05:26 GMT
Some of the 3 car 72 ts units were converted with the UNDMs becoming spare,into the 67 units and the 3 car unit DM having autocoupler fitted and the special trailer converted to standard trailer, (brake mods and removal of 2nd compressor), some units were also turned a end to d end and had jumper modifications.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Mar 25, 2018 21:24:36 GMT
I wonder what happened to the 3 car units from the 1972mk1 stock when the four car sets were inserted into the 1967 stock? Most Mark 1s were scrapped. Only a handful (7?) Of four car units went to the Victoria Line, and two complete trains went to strengthen the Bakerloo's fleet of Mark 2s. Another unit lives on the Aldwych branch for filming purposes.
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Post by North End on Mar 25, 2018 22:04:07 GMT
Thanks for the photos showing the difference between the handles. I wonder what happened to the 3 car units from the 1972mk1 stock when the four car sets were inserted into the 1967 stock? The DMs and trailers of the 3 cars were also used for the Victoria Line, in the same way that the 4 car units were broken in half with two cars going with two cars of 67 stock x2. The 4x UNDMs left spare by all this were ultimately scrapped, although IIRC two were used for refurbishment experiments in the interim. It's worth noting that virtually all the 72 stock off the Northern that went to the Bakerloo and Victoria lines was transferred well before the 95 stock started coming on the scene. Only one car withdrawn at the time of Northern Line fleet replacement saw further passenger use, this was car 3312 - which ultimately replaced collision damaged 67 stock car 3184.
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Post by programmes1 on Mar 26, 2018 7:43:03 GMT
Reg, Do you know which cars were to be given those numbers? Sorry, slight error in my original post. The numbers proposed for the Tunnel Cleaning Train MPUs were: L158 – ex-1972 MkI 3122 turned D to A L159 – ex-1967 3022 turned A to D L160 – ex-1972 MkI 3107 L161 – ex-1967 3007 The planned formation was to have been L158-L159+3x2 TCU+L161-L160 TCU = Tunnel Cleaning Unit. Whether the same numbers will remain in the plan I have no idea – I guess it all depends if they are eventually put to further use for something or other (or not). Reg, Many thanks.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2018 17:42:56 GMT
That actually makes a lot of sense. I love this forum, a chance to learn new things every day.
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Post by d7666 on Apr 10, 2018 12:45:28 GMT
the two 67 cars still at Acton Town today. -- Nick
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Post by Dstock7080 on Apr 10, 2018 13:01:22 GMT
the two 67 cars still at Acton Town today. -- Nick 1x ‘67 (west) 1x ‘72 (east)
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Post by d7666 on Apr 10, 2018 13:16:51 GMT
the two 67 cars still at Acton Town today. -- Nick 1x ‘67 (west) 1x ‘72 (east) Well spotted Sir. I plead guilty to not checking precisely their origins before posting. -- Nick
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Post by d7666 on Apr 10, 2018 13:20:38 GMT
Reg, Do you know which cars were to be given those numbers? Sorry, slight error in my original post. The numbers proposed for the Tunnel Cleaning Train MPUs were: L158 – ex-1972 MkI 3122 turned D to A L159 – ex-1967 3022 turned A to D L160 – ex-1972 MkI 3107 L161 – ex-1967 3007 The planned formation was to have been L158-L159+3x2 TCU+L161-L160 TCU = Tunnel Cleaning Unit. Whether the same numbers will remain in the plan I have no idea – I guess it all depends if they are eventually put to further use for something or other (or not). (1) thanks for the L numbers (2) I am under the impression that while the new TCC would have used MPU in the formation described, the MPU would not be dedicated to that role and would be available for any suitable engineers job including TRV, possibly from a pool of more MPU (all of which refers to intentions before the current situation of will they won't they have a job). -- Nick
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