Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Aug 17, 2019 11:01:35 GMT
What are the effects of strikes by train operators on signallers/controllers? How different is it to a normal day?
I'm guessing that when there are no or very few trains operating that a signaller's workload is significant less than typical, but is there something I'm missing?
I would naively expect that trying to run some sort of service with significantly fewer resources is a harder task for controllers than the usual planned and (nominally) well resourced day is?
Note: I'm not intending this to be a discussion of whether a strike is a good or bad thing, nor whether any given strike is or is not justified, or whether any increased workload is or is not fair. Strikes do happen, and I'm interested here in the effect on behind-the-scenes staff when they do.
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Post by londonstuff on Aug 17, 2019 11:47:46 GMT
What are the effects of strikes by train operators on signallers/controllers? How different is it to a normal day? I'm guessing that when there are no or very few trains operating that a signaller's workload is significant less than typical, but is there something I'm missing? I would naively expect that trying to run some sort of service with significantly fewer resources is a harder task for controllers than the usual planned and (nominally) well resourced day is? Note: I'm not intending this to be a discussion of whether a strike is a good or bad thing, nor whether any given strike is or is not justified, or whether any increased workload is or is not fair. Strikes do happen, and I'm interested here in the effect on behind-the-scenes staff when they do. When we visited the Victoria line control room at Northumberland Park (thanks to seaeagle!), the controllers there told us that the default position when nothing had gone wrong was that the whole thing basically ran and regulated itself so that there was little intervention needed. I’m sure on a strike day they’ll be working harder. On lines with less modern signalling I assume that the signallers are a lot more involved on a day-to-day basis. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2019 12:26:40 GMT
If the service is running good then little intervention is needed but everyday there is little niggles be it a train fault, passenger action, signal failure, track fault etc etc etc the list does truly go on.
But if any of the above happens and the service slows down or stops completely the work load goes up very quickly for everyone involved and is quite stressful after sitting in the control room at Earls Court as a example back in the 90's especially there with 2 lines in the same room it gets hectic and noisy.
I have to say the quietest control room I have ever been in was at Coburg St in the Victoria line again back in the 90's
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Post by greggygreggygreg on Aug 17, 2019 17:22:42 GMT
Controllers are like an insurance policy. Ideally they should be sat there doing nothing - this means the service is running as booked with no issues. The plan should just work with no intervention. Controllers should only need to intervene when something happens outside the plan (which tends to be a lot of the time!).
With industrial action, a plan might be produced with limited resources that can be guaranteed. Sometimes these will be managers operating trains who have limited experience who are more likely to have operational incidents.
Sometimes management might want to introduce more trains into the plan if more drivers turn up to work than expected - this is a huge workload for controllers, as putting trains into a timetable is more work than taking them out!
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Post by superteacher on Aug 19, 2019 11:36:30 GMT
THREAD SPLIT
Post relating to managers driving trains during strikes have been moved to a new thread. Click link below:
districtdavesforum.co.uk/thread/30875/
The OP in this thread was merely asking what signallers / controllers did during strikes.
As you were. 
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Post by sawb on Aug 20, 2019 14:55:32 GMT
Sometimes management might want to introduce more trains into the plan if more drivers turn up to work than expected - this is a huge workload for controllers, as putting trains into a timetable is more work than taking them out! As an ordinary traveller, could you explain why it's harder to put trains in than to take them out? |
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Post by greggygreggygreg on Aug 20, 2019 15:17:19 GMT
Sometimes management might want to introduce more trains into the plan if more drivers turn up to work than expected - this is a huge workload for controllers, as putting trains into a timetable is more work than taking them out! As an ordinary traveller, could you explain why it's harder to put trains in than to take them out? Because drivers have to be organised, trains have to be organised, those drivers, the depots and everyone else have to be communicated with so they know what they are doing. Taking trains out is easy - you just get the driver to put it away. |
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DWS
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Post by DWS on Aug 20, 2019 18:12:02 GMT
As an ordinary traveller, could you explain why it's harder to put trains in than to take them out? Because drivers have to be organised, trains have to be organised, those drivers, the depots and everyone else have to be communicated with so they know what they are doing. Taking trains out is easy - you just get the driver to put it away. That what’s Controllers are paid for, they work to the instructions of the Service Manager, they cannot choose what type of service to run on a strike day. |
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Post by superteacher on Aug 20, 2019 19:42:58 GMT
Because drivers have to be organised, trains have to be organised, those drivers, the depots and everyone else have to be communicated with so they know what they are doing. Taking trains out is easy - you just get the driver to put it away. That what’s Controllers are paid for, they work to the instructions of the Service Manager, they cannot choose what type of service to run on a strike day. Although a controller may argue that running less than a certain number of trains may cause crowding issues when word gets out that a service is running. |
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DWS
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Post by DWS on Aug 20, 2019 23:45:21 GMT
That what’s Controllers are paid for, they work to the instructions of the Service Manager, they cannot choose what type of service to run on a strike day. Although a controller may argue that running less than a certain number of trains may cause crowding issues when word gets out that a service is running. As I said the Sevice Manager in conjunction with Higher Management will decide on the service to be run on a strike day, if stations are over crowded they will be closed. I have been working on strike day in the past when on the Piccadily Line it has run short shuttle services at each end of the line. Each strike day it's different, but plans are in place to manage it but are not put out to the public until they can be sure of the available resources. |
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Post by rheostar on Aug 21, 2019 8:56:35 GMT
Although a controller may argue that running less than a certain number of trains may cause crowding issues when word gets out that a service is running. As I said the Sevice Manager in conjunction with Higher Management will decide on the service to be run on a strike day, if stations are over crowded they will be closed. I have been working on strike day in the past when on the Piccadily Line it has run short shuttle services at each end of the line. Each strike day it's different, but plans are in place to manage it but are not put out to the public until they can be sure of the available resources. During a strike, the service level is dependant on the number of T/Ops that report for duty. The Piccadilly line would aim to run a service between Heathrow and Hammersmith at the west end and Cockfosters and Arnos Grove on the east. For the signalling staff, these two services are relatively easy to operate. With the introduction of PICCU it'll be even easier to run. |
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DWS
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Post by DWS on Aug 21, 2019 12:52:03 GMT
As I said the Sevice Manager in conjunction with Higher Management will decide on the service to be run on a strike day, if stations are over crowded they will be closed. I have been working on strike day in the past when on the Piccadily Line it has run short shuttle services at each end of the line. Each strike day it's different, but plans are in place to manage it but are not put out to the public until they can be sure of the available resources. During a strike, the service level is dependant on the number of T/Ops that report for duty. The Piccadilly line would aim to run a service between Heathrow and Hammersmith at the west end and Cockfosters and Arnos Grove on the east. For the signalling staff, these two services are relatively easy to operate. With the introduction of PICCU it'll be even easier to run. The Piccadilly Line between Northfields and Heathrow is still controlled by signallers at Earls Court, who could be part of the strike. |
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Aug 21, 2019 14:09:23 GMT
The Piccadilly Line between Northfields and Heathrow is still controlled by signallers at Earls Court, who could be part of the strike. This is unlikely to be the case during a strike by train operators. The answer to what signallers do when signallers go on strike is rather obvious even to a layperson! |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2019 15:28:28 GMT
During a strike, the service level is dependant on the number of T/Ops that report for duty. The Piccadilly line would aim to run a service between Heathrow and Hammersmith at the west end and Cockfosters and Arnos Grove on the east. For the signalling staff, these two services are relatively easy to operate. With the introduction of PICCU it'll be even easier to run. The Piccadilly Line between Northfields and Heathrow is still controlled by signallers at Earls Court, who could be part of the strike. I knew the other weekend the control system had a major software update for PICU which included Acton Town Heathrow 123 Turnham Green Northfields and Arnos Grove so hasn't it been moved to South Ken yet? I'm sure when we test out Acton Town we ring South Ken and even though I'm not 100% sure I thought the Acton Desk also did Northfields |
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DWS
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Post by DWS on Aug 21, 2019 22:31:13 GMT
The Piccadilly Line between Northfields and Heathrow is still controlled by signallers at Earls Court, who could be part of the strike. I knew the other weekend the control system had a major software update for PICU which included Acton Town Heathrow 123 Turnham Green Northfields and Arnos Grove so hasn't it been moved to South Ken yet? I'm sure when we test out Acton Town we ring South Ken and even though I'm not 100% sure I thought the Acton Desk also did Northfields The Northfields Desk is still at Earl’s Court. |
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Post by rheostar on Aug 22, 2019 7:51:10 GMT
During a strike, the service level is dependant on the number of T/Ops that report for duty. The Piccadilly line would aim to run a service between Heathrow and Hammersmith at the west end and Cockfosters and Arnos Grove on the east. For the signalling staff, these two services are relatively easy to operate. With the introduction of PICCU it'll be even easier to run. The Piccadilly Line between Northfields and Heathrow is still controlled by signallers at Earls Court, who could be part of the strike. It all depends on who's on strike. If it's just the T/Ops then there'd be a full compliment of SOs. If the SOs were to join a strike then the desks would be worked by managers. In the past, I've worked both the Northfields and Acton Town desks during a strike. I forget the exact timeline now, but I think the Acton Town desk migrated to South Ken quite recently with Northfields at some point later this year. The OP asked what it's like for Service Control staff during strikes. It's actually quite relaxing! Only running say ten trains between Hammersmith and Heathrow is a doddle compared to the 79 that's normally out on the railway. |
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