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Post by selbiehouse on Mar 19, 2021 11:53:48 GMT
The December 2020 edition of the Tube Map seems now to be freely available. As we know the map not only includes the London Underground but DLR, London Overground, Emirates Air Line, TfL Rail and London Trams (ie Croydon Tram Link). With this edition Thameslink services are also included. While to the north the lines are truncated at Elstree & Borehamwood and New Barnet the situation in the south is rather different with both routes to Wimbledon and the lines as far as Coulsdon South, Orpington, Swanley and Dartford all included. Its is all something of an information overload. Whether it helps the person wanting to travel from South Kensington to Chancery Lane to determine the route with clarity must be in question. We still have Crossrail and the Battersea extension of the Northern Line to be added. Is the map still fit for purpose? Oh for the days when the title was @underground Diagram of Lines'!
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class411
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Post by class411 on Mar 19, 2021 12:46:45 GMT
It really has become a dog's dinner.
Opinions seem to vary as to how much should be included on the diagram.
The problem is that there does not seem to be any logical basis for excluding anything, on a general purpose diagram.
I would like to see TFL introduce a card with the full works (as above) on one side, and a 'just the underground' (i.e. no LO, no DLR - nothing but the classic underground lines) diagram on the other side.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Mar 19, 2021 13:20:39 GMT
I would like to see TFL introduce...a 'just the underground' (i.e. no LO, no DLR - nothing but the classic underground lines) diagram on the other side. Why? What benefit does this have to someone planning a journey? Unless of course you're going to use the additional space to include full (ie which platforms are step free, which station entrances are etc...) details of accessibility. |
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class411
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Post by class411 on Mar 19, 2021 14:05:26 GMT
I would like to see TFL introduce...a 'just the underground' (i.e. no LO, no DLR - nothing but the classic underground lines) diagram on the other side. Why? What benefit does this have to someone planning a journey? Unless of course you're going to use the additional space to include full (ie which platforms are step free, which station entrances are etc...) details of accessibility. I just meant that I would personally like to see that because I am a great admirer of the simple LU diagrams that HB produced. So just for aesthetic reasons, really, as a sort of cover decoration for the 'real' diagram. I still have that map that a member produced a few years ago with just LU and DLR as my desktop background. Sad but true. |
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Post by steve98 on Mar 19, 2021 18:57:31 GMT
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londoner
thinking on '73 stock
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Post by londoner on Mar 19, 2021 19:41:26 GMT
Why? What benefit does this have to someone planning a journey? Unless of course you're going to use the additional space to include full (ie which platforms are step free, which station entrances are etc...) details of accessibility. I just meant that I would personally like to see that because I am a great admirer of the simple LU diagrams that HB produced. So just for aesthetic reasons, really, as a sort of cover decoration for the 'real' diagram. I still have that map that a member produced a few years ago with just LU and DLR as my desktop background. Sad but true. I removed all the elements in Inkscape. Here you go: filebin.net/yh2sgtkiqt7vopa3 |
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Post by brigham on Mar 20, 2021 8:51:44 GMT
Excellent.
A simple diagram for anyone out-of-town who wants to use the London Underground.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Mar 20, 2021 13:06:45 GMT
As opposed to a diagram for anyone out-of-town who wants to travel in London.
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class411
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Post by class411 on Mar 20, 2021 13:11:01 GMT
As opposed to a diagram for anyone out-of-town who wants to travel in London. Obviously. But there are many people who want to do a journey in London and know that they can do it on the underground, so a simple underground map with no clutter is useful. Provided that there is always an equally accessible 'full' map for those who need it. |
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Post by Chris M on Mar 20, 2021 13:40:28 GMT
But they might not know that, e.g. DLR and London Overground are not technically London Underground and/or not know that alternatives to the Underground are better for the journey they want to make, e.g. Camden to Kew Gardens, Bank to Canary Wharf.
The main map is a mess, but removing a significant portion of its utility is not the way to rectify that. Instead things like making it larger, moving the step-free information (which is oversimplified to the point of being misleading in places) to a separate (equally prominent) map is the better way to go.
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Post by zbang on Mar 20, 2021 17:08:18 GMT
At this point, I pretty much consider the HugeMap an art piece and use something online to route me. Sure, the Map is useful for zones 1/2, and maybe into 3, but otherwise I'm on probably gooogle (and use TubeChaser/TubeTraveler/Fasteroute for arrivals & status).
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Post by John Tuthill on Mar 20, 2021 17:17:19 GMT
As opposed to a diagram for anyone out-of-town who wants to travel in London. Obviously. But there are many people who want to do a journey in London and know that they can do it on the underground, so a simple underground map with no clutter is useful. Provided that there is always an equally accessible 'full' map for those who need it. Imagine trying to read it if it's in the back of a pocket diary.(Presuming of course people still use a diary, or even know what one is)  |
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class411
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Post by class411 on Mar 20, 2021 17:37:25 GMT
Obviously. But there are many people who want to do a journey in London and know that they can do it on the underground, so a simple underground map with no clutter is useful. Provided that there is always an equally accessible 'full' map for those who need it. Imagine trying to read it if it's in the back of a pocket diary.( Presuming of course people still use a diary, or even know what one is) I believe it's where dyslexic supermarkets obtain their milk. |
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Post by johnlinford on Mar 20, 2021 22:54:14 GMT
As opposed to a diagram for anyone out-of-town who wants to travel in London. It provides an excellent map of rail based suburban public transport in the north and west of London, and to get to Westfield Stratford. Why would anyone want to go anywhere else! |
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class411
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Post by class411 on Mar 21, 2021 9:18:27 GMT
As opposed to a diagram for anyone out-of-town who wants to travel in London. It provides an excellent map of rail based suburban public transport in the north and west of London, and to get to Westfield Stratford. Why would anyone want to go anywhere else! Well, the one in Shepherds Bush is bigger. |
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Post by ducatisti on Mar 22, 2021 10:27:28 GMT
When people say "fit for purpose", then clearly, the first thing is to work out what the purpose is.
A map of just the tube is only helpful for people who only want to use the tube.
My personal view is that a map scores over directional internet resource (like sat-navs) is that if you fall off the direction, you may not know it, and can't use wider clues/relationships to work it out (like people driving down rivers/railways etc when following sat-nav).
when I used to use a pocket diary my big gripe was the ones that did zone 1 only - the time I wanted to refer to the map was for when I didn't know where I was going, which was usually when venturing beyond zone 1.
Maybe the answer is to divide the map into 4 quarters?
The ideal would be a fully-integrated, zoomable holographic projection that allows all the necessary information meshed into a topographic map...
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vincenture
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Post by vincenture on Mar 22, 2021 16:46:26 GMT
Is it me or will London Overground lines benefit from a new "geographical-easytoread" map ie Tube Map (for LO)? Sooner or later there'll be many, many lines
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Post by quex on Mar 23, 2021 20:27:05 GMT
The main map is a mess, but removing a significant portion of its utility is not the way to rectify that. Instead things like making it larger, moving the step-free information (which is oversimplified to the point of being misleading in places) to a separate (equally prominent) map is the better way to go. I'm glad I'm not alone in thinking this, I think I've bored people silly by talking about it!
The removal of step-free information from the main map is often received as a controversial thing to suggest, but IMO the real controversial issue is how little useful information is actually easily accessible for planning a step-free journey. The step-free "blobs" simply are not enough to plan anything but the most simple journeys, especially bearing in mind that "step-free" users can range from someone in a motorised mobility scooter, to someone in a wheelchair, to a parent with pushchair, to someone who just prefers to use a lift as their legs are failing them in old age. The step-free blobs on the main map are not fit for purpose.
TfL should give up on the near-impossible task of trying to provide all the information on one already-crowded map, and make all the "accessible maps" (such as the large print and black-and-white maps) equally as prominent, rather than "hidden away" in some ex-ticket office.
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Post by Chris M on Mar 24, 2021 1:26:51 GMT
As someone who often prefers to use lifts when available due to mobility issues, one thing that is completely overlooked is that some step free routes are much, much longer than the stepped route (King's Cross Vic to Northern being an excellent example). Particularly when I was on a crutch, it was easier for me to manage a few steps (as long was there was a handrail) than to walk quarter of a mile. Since the demise of DirectEnquires, walking distances for different routes are simply not available anywhere that I am aware of.
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