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Post by andy27350 on Sept 8, 2021 11:03:01 GMT
Soon I guess these will soon be out on patrol . But I can’t find details ( Not Timing) of these trains .
what were they converted from , do they carry their original stock numbers etc . Can I find out what they carry now ?
I note from a passing Metline service yesterday Tuesday 07th-September-2021 , one of these trains was at Neasden Depot . Which one ?
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Sept 8, 2021 11:20:37 GMT
The Central line RAT's are made up from 1962 tube stock.
There is plenty of information about them on this very board in past threads.
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Post by andy27350 on Sept 8, 2021 14:50:22 GMT
Yes indeed there are a few comments etc here on . But they don’t give the information I am seeking . In fact from 2014;there are two posts that contradict each other .
Hence my original post
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Post by Dstock7080 on Sept 8, 2021 15:33:37 GMT
1962 Stock, still retain original numbers:
5-car
1570-9691-2440-9441-1441
8-car
1406-2682-9125-1681+1682-9577-2406-1407 recently undergone overhaul Acton Works, was in Neasden depot yesterday.
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Post by andy27350 on Sept 8, 2021 17:19:29 GMT
Thank you , information much appreciated
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Nov 1, 2021 16:50:12 GMT
Does someone have a link to a basic introduction to what the RATs are (what they do and why) aimed at the general public?
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Post by d7666 on Nov 1, 2021 17:46:56 GMT
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Nov 1, 2021 18:32:51 GMT
yeah, that's far too in depth for the audience I'm dealing with whose current knowledge is basically "this is an old train that lays sticky stuff on the rails to reduce the impact of leaves on the line". Something more than about a single side of A4 paper is probably too detailed tbh.
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Post by d7666 on Nov 1, 2021 22:28:53 GMT
yeah, that's far too in depth for the audience I'm dealing with whose current knowledge is basically "this is an old train that lays sticky stuff on the rails to reduce the impact of leaves on the line". Something more than about a single side of A4 paper is probably too detailed tbh. Ahhh ... sounds like the level needed for senior manager(s) briefing(s)    I won't mention the "senior something officer" who came to Wood Lane one day and enquired why ACCAT (the leaf fall season adhesion application) did not function line wide i.e. why not between White City and Stratford, etc. D'uh.  |
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Post by MoreToJack on Nov 1, 2021 23:02:11 GMT
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Post by Chris M on Nov 2, 2021 0:24:46 GMT
Sort of, although it's more focused on the history of the particular units and formations rather than what a RAT is, does and why |
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Post by roboverground on Nov 2, 2021 9:19:24 GMT
I show the ndm on the 5 car as 9 6 9 1 not 9591 Ruislip based
and on 8 car set
traler car 2 4 0 6 not 2606 Hainault based
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Post by spsmiler on Nov 2, 2021 11:54:19 GMT
I've seen one of these several times in the past weeks.
I was surprised on one occasion when it passed a signal showing a white lamp, although this then quickly changed to green.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Nov 2, 2021 13:49:25 GMT
I've seen one of these several times in the past weeks. I was surprised on one occasion when it passed a signal showing a white lamp, although this then quickly changed to green. They are fitted with Central Line signalling so can pass white aspects. Unfitted trains cannot, though I don't think they're allowed out during passenger hours. |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Nov 2, 2021 15:36:26 GMT
I show the ndm on the 5 car as 9 6 9 1 not 9591 Ruislip based and on 8 car set traler car 2 4 0 6 not 2606 Hainault based thanks for that, trying to read very small writing from my notes! updated. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2021 17:22:33 GMT
on the destination boards at stations, these are listed as 'Special' trains, why not 'Not in Service'?
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Post by zbang on Nov 2, 2021 18:58:36 GMT
Well, they may be "in service", just not in revenue service. (Isn't "Not in Service" reserved for passenger-carrying trains that aren't actually carrying them? I doubt many people would confuse a RAT with any of the current passenger stock.)
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Nov 2, 2021 19:25:39 GMT
I doubt many people would confuse a RAT with any of the current passenger stock.) You'd be surprised. Most people don't know, or care, about the difference between types of train, hence the need for large posters in the doorways saying the train is not in service. |
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Post by zbang on Nov 2, 2021 19:39:42 GMT
I really shouldn't be, The Public never fails to find the most absurd way of seeing just about anything.
Re posters- I though tom5ki7 was referring to train describers, not what's on the train itself.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Nov 2, 2021 21:23:37 GMT
It's been niggling me for a few days now, thread title changed from "Central Line RAT trains" to "2021 Central Line Rail Adhesion Trains" on the basis that RAT stands for Rail Adhesion Train so the former title was tautology.
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Nov 2, 2021 22:32:54 GMT
on the destination boards at stations, these are listed as 'Special' trains, why not 'Not in Service'? I don't believe the signalling system can allocate a 'Not In Service' on the dot matrix signs. When Not in Service comes up, it's for a 1992 stock train, which has an 'in service/not in service' switch in the cab. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2021 8:52:29 GMT
on the destination boards at stations, these are listed as 'Special' trains, why not 'Not in Service'? I don't believe the signalling system can allocate a 'Not In Service' on the dot matrix signs. When Not in Service comes up, it's for a 1992 stock train, which has an 'in service/not in service' switch in the cab. So when a driver presses the not in service switch in the cab, it interacts with the signalling system and shows it on the dot matrix signs as 'Not in Service'? |
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Post by d7666 on Nov 3, 2021 13:22:33 GMT
Sort of, although it's more focused on the history of the particular units and formations rather than what a RAT is, does and why extracted from a high level overview " Lines .... vulnerable to leaf fall problems Combination of rain or moisture and leaves leads to wheel/rail adhesion falling to very low values Leads to signal overlaps and service reliability being compromised Can be cause of significant wheel damage Leaf fall in dry conditions can cause the train to become electrically isolated leading to track circuits problems Management of leaf fall problems Application of a ‘friction modifier’ – Sandite – contains silica sand, stainless steel balls/shots and base gel (e.g. Laponite) Applied to the railhead and breaks down the leaves. High pressure water jetting (provided by Network Rail) <----- obviously not Central Line !!! Is that enough ? |
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Nov 3, 2021 15:56:12 GMT
So when a driver presses the not in service switch in the cab, it interacts with the signalling system and shows it on the dot matrix signs as 'Not in Service'? Yes, that's my understanding. Someone like d7666 will know more about that side of things than me, though. |
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Post by d7666 on Nov 4, 2021 15:19:26 GMT
So when a driver presses the not in service switch in the cab, it interacts with the signalling system and shows it on the dot matrix signs as 'Not in Service'? Yes, that's my understanding. Someone like d7666 will know more about that side of things than me, though. Alas you have caught me out on this one  I am aware of the OOS switch in the cabs and it's function w.r.t. signals control system, but TBH haven't the faintest idea what it may do in CIS, if anything. I'm minded to say it does not do anything although ..... investigating ..... will report back in time ..... but I've got some annual leaves (pun intended due to thread subject) over next couple of weeks so might not be a quick response. |
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Post by altanader on Nov 6, 2021 10:56:10 GMT
Just saw one at Leytonstone about 20 mins ago.
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Post by jimbo on Nov 24, 2021 19:28:41 GMT
Why are the two trains different lengths? One has an extra three cars to maintain! I'm sure we all are glad these ghosts from the past remain to glide by from time to time. But how much longer can they survive with maintenance costs, and special training for staff to drive and maintain them? The Picc manages to modify two standard trains for leaf fall each year. Couldn't the Central do the same? Perhaps it must await CLIP to release two spare trains?
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Nov 24, 2021 22:17:57 GMT
The West End RAT used to be 1992 stock which was converted like the Picc's 1973 stock trains, but there was more pressing need to have 1992 stock in service, even pre-CLIP. As for staff driving it, they're all crewed by Test Train Operators to avoid the need for specific training of line staff - who are, of course, needed for driving passengers trains as is their raison d'etre.
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Post by spsmiler on Nov 24, 2021 22:47:23 GMT
Whats more, especially the train that works over east London tracks (I am not sure about the west London train) they carry a train driver at each end, so that they can quickly reverse direction of travel without waiting for the driver to walk from one end of the train to the other end.
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metman
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Post by metman on Nov 25, 2021 10:04:21 GMT
With current possible cut backs the 1959/62 stock RATs may need to operate for even longer!
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I am aware of the OOS switch in the cabs and it's function w.r.t. signals control system, but TBH haven't the faintest idea what it may do in CIS, if anything. I'm minded to say it does not do anything although ..... investigating ..... will report back in time ..... but I've got some annual leaves (pun intended due to thread subject) over next couple of weeks so might not be a quick response.
