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Post by d7666 on Jan 24, 2022 18:26:19 GMT
Has this site, specifically this page, been mentioned here before ? www.midlandrailwaystudycentre.org.uk/documents/RFB20628.jpgSomeone drew my attention to it today; I had not seen this site before. This one a Midland Railway based strip diagram such as used in Control offices for Moorgate to Silkstream - I'm sure the track layouts on the Widened Lines are well known enough in here. But also look further out : at West End sdgs you can see specific reference to "Met traffic via Finchley Road" and Brent New sdgs to traffic via Met widened lines. If this is a new diagram for here, then I'm pretty sure that's of interest for those into LT freight traffic. |
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gantshill
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Post by gantshill on Jan 24, 2022 18:53:00 GMT
What an excellent find. As well as Finchley Road, it is interesting to see so many sections of the overground included. What really caught my eye was the junctions just to the west of Turnham Green. |
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castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
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Post by castlebar on Jan 24, 2022 19:51:25 GMT
You can easily tell this is an old map (pre 1916) because it's paper pasted on a linen backing for easy folding,
but with manuscript annotations in ink (one is dated 1924)
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Post by zbang on Jan 24, 2022 20:41:09 GMT
The lettering "Prepared April 1912" and "Revised Jan 1923" are also giveaways (in the lower right).
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Post by d7666 on Feb 14, 2022 23:30:28 GMT
More gen but different Moorgate gen. Bit anoraky this one but the list of loco numbers might of of interest to some e.g. modellers. leightonlists.com/2c88-0754-harpenden-moorgate/The two phots at Farringdon certainly are interesting. But it prompts me a question. Moorgate <-> Barbican was rebuilt and realigned in early 1960s - but when did Moorgate station get built over and enclosed (was thinking about diesels exhausts here! ). Diesels at least DMMU from both the Midland and GN side, and loco hauleds from the GN lasted right up to the route temporarily closed for BedPan 25 kV wiring; IIRC Moorgate was already enclosed by then ? Or is my memory playing tricks ? |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Feb 15, 2022 5:46:30 GMT
Diesels at least DMMU from both the Midland and GN side, and loco hauleds from the GN lasted right up to the route temporarily closed for BedPan 25 kV wiring; IIRC Moorgate was already enclosed by then ? Or is my memory playing tricks ? Platforms 5&6 were deliberately constructed with daylight shafts above the track to allow exhaust to escape. flic.kr/p/CProzapaul.bailey.pagesperso-orange.fr/trains2.htm |
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Post by d7666 on Feb 15, 2022 15:16:10 GMT
Diesels at least DMMU from both the Midland and GN side, and loco hauleds from the GN lasted right up to the route temporarily closed for BedPan 25 kV wiring; IIRC Moorgate was already enclosed by then ? Or is my memory playing tricks ? Platforms 5&6 were deliberately constructed with daylight shafts above the track to allow exhaust to escape. flic.kr/p/CProzapaul.bailey.pagesperso-orange.fr/trains2.htmThanks ! Thats one part of my question answered (diesel fumes) .... when was this done anybody ? Re-aligning the route was one thing, building over it almost certainly another. |
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Post by hptraveller on Feb 15, 2022 20:14:27 GMT
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Post by d7666 on Feb 16, 2022 14:20:23 GMT
thanks; yes that looks like construction period; the trouble with locating stuff like this in flickr is more often than not what you seek is not the subject of the photo, and not captioned, so relies on someone knowing that a particular image or gallery can help. |
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Post by jimbo on Feb 17, 2022 19:38:11 GMT
Back to the original post, what use was made of the original Met. Railway layout at Moorgate? Seems to be a stabling road alongside the inner rail line. Was that a bay road platform on the outer rail? And a goods yard alongside? The current Met reversing platforms didn't exist at that time, so when were they provided? I'm pretty sure they predate the station reconstruction just discussed.
(Edit) Harsig pages show 1933 layout had lost outer rail roads, and inner rail siding apparently extended to form bay road which linked to easternmost widened lines platform road. 1958/65 layout seems as today, with widened lines using only two platforms, and two Met bay roads. I still wonder the use of the inner (outer) rail roads.
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Post by jimbo on Feb 19, 2022 19:53:47 GMT
Fifty years back the area east of the outer rail platform was still in railway use, occupied by the LU Fire Manager's department. They tested hoses and laid them the length of the site to dry before rolling again.
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Post by spsmiler on Feb 22, 2022 10:52:40 GMT
Here is a more modern view of the ventilation shaft - and a type of train that very possibly never actually came here whilst in normal passenger service. I wonder about the future fate of the ventilation shaft, now that the possibility of a diesel loco or multiple unit train ever using these platforms is virtually zero? The overhead wire tensioning equipment might also interest some people. The sign with the black cross (at the left edge of the photo) says 'not for 999 calls'. This implies that there must have been a telephone nearby.
 377208-Moorgate-P1120742 |
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Feb 22, 2022 21:08:08 GMT
The sign with the black cross (at the left edge of the photo) says 'not for 999 calls'. This implies that there must have been a telephone nearby. Not quite, I think this is standard for telephones on the railway (telephone) network that are in public areas. |
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Post by d7666 on Feb 22, 2022 22:06:52 GMT
The sign with the black cross (at the left edge of the photo) says 'not for 999 calls'. This implies that there must have been a telephone nearby. Not quite, I think this is standard for telephones on the railway (telephone) network that are in public areas. Neither comment are completely right or completely wrong. www.railsigns.uk/sect19page1.htmlQUOTE A new sign comprising a white square with a black St. Andrew's cross [see the web page for image] was introduced in January 1962 to distinguish lineside telephones not located at signals (excluding electrification telephones) or telephones at signals where Rule 55 (see Section 9) does not apply (e.g. signals not on running lines or loops). UNQUOTE 'not for 999' sign and the 'st andrews cross' sign indicate two seperate things. 'not for 999 calls' is directed at the public, as opposed to rail staff, but such a sign would not necessarily be associated with a 'st andrews cross' marked phone; nothing more is implied about any other phones location. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2022 17:00:42 GMT
Its called a lineside phone
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Post by jimbo on Apr 5, 2022 5:53:00 GMT
Back to the original post, what use was made of the original Met. Railway layout at Moorgate? Seems to be a stabling road alongside the inner rail line. Was that a bay road platform on the outer rail? And a goods yard alongside? The current Met reversing platforms didn't exist at that time, so when were they provided? I'm pretty sure they predate the station reconstruction just discussed. (Edit) Harsig pages show 1933 layout had lost outer rail roads, and inner rail siding apparently extended to form bay road which linked to easternmost widened lines platform road. 1958/65 layout seems as today, with widened lines using only two platforms, and two Met bay roads. I still wonder the use of the inner (outer) rail roads. The 1894 map on this site shows the outer rail short bay platform, together with two other short roads nearby. Note also two more short roads by the outer rail line to the west of Moor Lane, which are not on the line diagram in the original post. I wonder if there was a local coal traffic for heating buildings, as there was at Baker Street. Further old photos of the station here, with the final one showing plenty of tunnel space to the north of the platforms for access to the planned S7 stabling roads. |
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Post by selbiehouse on Apr 7, 2022 12:13:50 GMT
Back to the original post, what use was made of the original Met. Railway layout at Moorgate? Seems to be a stabling road alongside the inner rail line. Was that a bay road platform on the outer rail? And a goods yard alongside? The current Met reversing platforms didn't exist at that time, so when were they provided? I'm pretty sure they predate the station reconstruction just discussed. (Edit) Harsig pages show 1933 layout had lost outer rail roads, and inner rail siding apparently extended to form bay road which linked to easternmost widened lines platform road. 1958/65 layout seems as today, with widened lines using only two platforms, and two Met bay roads. I still wonder the use of the inner (outer) rail roads. The 1894 map on this site shows the outer rail short bay platform, together with two other short roads nearby. Note also two more short roads by the outer rail line to the west of Moor Lane, which are not on the line diagram in the original post. I wonder if there was a local coal traffic for heating buildings, as there was at Baker Street. Further old photos of the station here, with the final one showing plenty of tunnel space to the north of the platforms for access to the planned S7 stabling roads.I have a WTT dated 1st November 1891 for the Widened Lines which shows that there were no freight workings to or from Moorgate Street. All passenger traffic plus odd empty stock and light engine workings. I have a WTT dated 1st November 1891 for the Widened Lines which shows that there were no freight workings to or from Moorgate Street. All passenger traffic plus odd empty stock and light engine workings. |
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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Post by roythebus on Apr 21, 2022 22:54:06 GMT
I remember seeing the new alignment tunnels being built when I used to bunk of fschool in the period 1965-1968, seeing the old brick tunnels being demolished, also the new Tower Hill Station being built. I learnt more in those days on the Underground than I did at school! I believe I travelled over the new track before the tunnels were boxed in.
The boxing in of Moorgate incorporated fan-powered vents in the Barbican end of the station over the loco spurs and the point where departing locos would stand. I am one of the few who has worked on the Met/Circle side as a guard at PG and later on the Met, and the Widened Lines as a 2nd man at KX in 1976-78.
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Post by spsmiler on Apr 22, 2022 10:31:39 GMT
I remember seeing the new alignment tunnels being built when I used to bunk of fschool in the period 1965-1968, seeing the old brick tunnels being demolished, also the new Tower Hill Station being built. I learnt more in those days on the Underground than I did at school! I believe I travelled over the new track before the tunnels were boxed in. The boxing in of Moorgate incorporated fan-powered vents in the Barbican end of the station over the loco spurs and the point where departing locos would stand. I am one of the few who has worked on the Met/Circle side as a guard at PG and later on the Met, and the Widened Lines as a 2nd man at KX in 1976-78. It is a shame that the project did not include relocating the SSR bay platforms centrally between the through tracks. This would have especially benefitted westbound services as they would not be delayed by eastbound trains crossing in front of them whilst arriving at the terminus platforms. Another trick which would have improved train operations at busy times would have to have added a third track to the west of the station so that arriving trains could enter slowly without delaying the rest of the eastbound service and - if need be - even pause whilst awaiting an empty bay platform.* I suppose however that these two suggestions would have peeved the pax on the terminating train if they resulted in trains which were behind them arriving at the station before the train they were on! *As an aside, the northbound (notionally 'eastbound'?) Piccadilly line at Arnos Grove would benefit tremendously if this was done here - and the bad publicity of road users on the A406 below the bridge just outside the station always seeing slow moving trains would be reduced. Because of delays at the nearby traffic signal junctions road users often have plenty of time to watch the slow progress of the trains. |
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Post by Chris L on Apr 23, 2022 8:07:08 GMT
It is a shame that the project did not include relocating the SSR bay platforms centrally between the through tracks. This would have especially benefitted westbound services as they would not be delayed by eastbound trains crossing in front of them whilst arriving at the terminus platforms. Another trick which would have improved train operations at busy times would have to have added a third track to the west of the station so that arriving trains could enter slowly without delaying the rest of the eastbound service and - if need be - even pause whilst awaiting an empty bay platform.* I suppose however that these two suggestions would have peeved the pax on the terminating train if they resulted in trains which were behind them arriving at the station before the train they were on! The basements of the buildings in the area to the east of station would have prevented any realignment of the tracks/bay roads. |
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Apr 23, 2022 13:00:29 GMT
The basements of the buildings in the area to the east of station would have prevented any realignment of the tracks/bay roads. There was talk of such a scheme (diverting the inner rail through platform 3) during the 1990s. It certainly reached concept design stage, before being dropped. Had basements been such a great impediment I doubt it would have got beyond the feasibility study. |
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Post by ertowerty1 on Jan 4, 2023 22:54:51 GMT
Re the ventilation of the CWL at Moorgate:
The vent shaft at the buffer end of the platforms went through the pub above, not literally, but the pub was built around the shaft.
The loco spurs at the Barbican end of the platforms had an extract system installed which discharged through the Barbican Complex.
These fans were bought into use by the spur tracks being occupied.
I'm not sure how the vents would be effective for a DMU with power cars which would be located in the centre of the platforms.
The original scheme would have been designed for loco hauled trains.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Jan 7, 2023 23:27:06 GMT
Love it.
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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Post by roythebus on Feb 28, 2023 16:53:08 GMT
Any freight traffic, and there was a quite a lot of it back in the day, would have served the numerous underground and surface level goods depots between Farringdon Street, Aldersgate and Holborn Viaduct. Have a look at some of the NLS maps from the early 20th century, they are fascinating. Surface level goods depots were connected by lifts down to track level, and shunting above was done by horse or capstan. The whole area round Aldersgate was a labyrinth of underground goods depots.
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Post by d7666 on Feb 28, 2023 21:09:35 GMT
It's not strictly true to suggest "any" freight served those intermediate depots as if nothing else; there were up to 30 through main line yard to yard transfer freights over widened lines and snow hill every day ; that is more than one per hour and I venture to suggest the trips to the local yards were not as often as that
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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Post by roythebus on Oct 16, 2023 7:58:23 GMT
To revive this thread a bit, on the original District Dave site there were accounts about the Great Western fish trains that ran through to Billingsgate, how the pannier tank would be called "Western Bob" by the signalman at Farringdon Street. Pity these stories seem to have been lost over the last few years along with the tales from "Piccadilly Pilot".
Going at a slight tangent having read the link to the "Hidden London" post above, the Great Northern & City line platform hide an awful lot of history. I was secondman at Kings Cross at the time of rebuilding the line and worked down there a few times on the ex class 501 battery locos. The upright walls on the platform hide the original curved tunnel walls which were left entirely as they were complete with adverts and enamel station signs. Pity I never went equipped with some hand tools back in the day! I never had a decent camera either.
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Post by spsmiler on Oct 16, 2023 14:05:06 GMT
The Hidden London people should pay a visit! With cameras, of course.
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