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Post by Dstock7080 on Apr 9, 2022 11:14:02 GMT
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Post by aslefshrugged on Apr 9, 2022 16:33:17 GMT
The advantage of having one stock on several lines!
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Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,310
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Post by Colin on Apr 9, 2022 17:08:26 GMT
The advantage of having one stock on several lines! The issue only affects the S8's on the Metropolitan line. S7's on the Circle, District and Hammersmith & City lines are not affected. |
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Post by Chris L on Apr 9, 2022 19:17:41 GMT
Inappropriate job title for the announcement.
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Post by jimbo on Apr 10, 2022 3:43:29 GMT
I guess we would all like to know just what the "issue with some wheel sets of S8 stock trains" is, and why it "does not affect S7 stock trains". How many trains have been stopped? Presumably, it is not possible to borrow some S7 trains to fill the gaps, negating an advantage of a standardised fleet. Just what will the special service provide, based "on timetables operated during the pandemic"?
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Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,310
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Post by Colin on Apr 10, 2022 4:08:42 GMT
I guess we would all like to know just what the "issue with some wheel sets of S8 stock trains" is, and why it "does not affect S7 stock trains". The issue is related to trains that have recently visited the wheel lathe at Neasden, which is why its only the S8 fleet that is affected. Just what will the special service provide, based "on timetables operated during the pandemic"? 4tph Uxbridge - Aldgate 4tph Watford - Baker Street 2tph Amersham/Chesham - Baker Street |
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Post by t697 on Apr 10, 2022 8:47:05 GMT
I guess we would all like to know just what the "issue with some wheel sets of S8 stock trains" is, and why it "does not affect S7 stock trains". How many trains have been stopped? Presumably, it is not possible to borrow some S7 trains to fill the gaps, negating an advantage of a standardised fleet. Just what will the special service provide, based "on timetables operated during the pandemic"? There is quite a laundry list of difficulties trying to operate S7 trains in service on the Met route. Probably none insuperable but the totality is offputting. We'll see whether they can recover the situation without needing that. |
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Post by A60stock on Apr 10, 2022 9:22:55 GMT
Does this affect the morning peak?
If so, what is the tph on each branch
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Post by lukeo on Apr 10, 2022 10:09:09 GMT
The email from TfL lists a 12tph frequency, but doesn’t mention whether there will be more trains during the peaks or if that is it.
So the metline could be dropping from the usual 24tph between Harrow to Baker St during the morning peak, to just 12tph from tomorrow.
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Post by MoreToJack on Apr 10, 2022 10:29:23 GMT
As already mentioned this timetable will run all day Monday to Friday; intervals will be extended at the start and end of service. Two additional trains are available in the peaks to run as required, but these have generally not run when this timetable has operated previously. Whether they can run come Monday will depend on fleet availability - and, of course, this May even preclude the full operation of the 4tph TT.
It is also worth pointing out that the Amersham and Chesham service runs fast between Harrow and Moor Park.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Apr 10, 2022 10:48:56 GMT
The advantage of having one stock on several lines! The issue only affects the S8's on the Metropolitan line. S7's on the Circle, District and Hammersmith & City lines are not affected. I misread the original comment, I thought they were sending S7s from the other lines to the Met while the S8s were being worked on Alzheimer's strikes again... |
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Post by roverlei on Apr 10, 2022 17:41:47 GMT
Fantastic - as if the service on the Metropolitan line hasn't been awful enough in recent months, we now have to contend with 6 tph from Moor Park southbound. To be honest, we probably won't notice much difference, it's been that bad.
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Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,310
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Post by Colin on Apr 10, 2022 18:17:03 GMT
roverlei you seem to be confused about the the purpose of this forum. It's not run by T fL and it's not the place to vent your frustrations at them. This forum is run by enthusiasts for enthusiasts.
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Post by A60stock on Apr 10, 2022 22:46:32 GMT
Fantastic - as if the service on the Metropolitan line hasn't been awful enough in recent months, we now have to contend with 6 tph from Moor Park southbound. To be honest, we probably won't notice much difference, it's been that bad. Pretty sure there are still 8tph from moor park, although 4 of those are fast (which actually works out better in the off peak) Agreed that for the peaks, this is atrocious |
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a60
I will make the 8100 Class DART my new A Stock.
Posts: 743
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Post by a60 on Apr 11, 2022 6:54:27 GMT
I had pondered (elsewhere on the interweb) if this was linked to a programme lift as I saw 21015/16 at Hillingdon on some very fresh wheels and bogies. I have been advised that such a programme has now begun.
As to the practicalities, train 730 this morning isn’t horribly crowded out. I think as a chunk of people are either on annual this week, or otherwise WFH, a worse time for this to happen could have come about. I do note that this is supposed to be on for the next 6 weeks (per the info board at Hillingdon). I dare say that as this progresses, things could get… interesting.
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Post by greatkingrat on Apr 11, 2022 7:19:32 GMT
Presumably the service will gradually improve over the 6 weeks once trains start being repaired and come back in service?
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Post by plunet on Apr 11, 2022 7:58:14 GMT
Presumably the service will gradually improve over the 6 weeks once trains start being repaired and come back in service? I wouldn't bet on it, the management have been running a "special operation" on the Met Line for months with complete disregard to the timetable or proper customer information about their intentions, with various excuses and fake news leaked from time to time. This just means that they have come up with a concrete excuse that they're now going to publish and formalises what has been close to normal for a while. |
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Post by A60stock on Apr 11, 2022 8:42:30 GMT
Over the past few months, I haven't actually noticed any major service reductions asides from the cancellations shown at some stations. Commuting in the peaks has actually been far more reliable than pre covid.
Is there a link to the full timetable that will be run going forwards? I will really need this for the morning peak as someone who is travelling from North of Harrow on the Hill
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Post by MoreToJack on Apr 11, 2022 8:55:25 GMT
Presumably the service will gradually improve over the 6 weeks once trains start being repaired and come back in service? I wouldn't bet on it, the management have been running a "special operation" on the Met Line for months with complete disregard to the timetable or proper customer information about their intentions, with various excuses and fake news leaked from time to time. This just means that they have come up with a concrete excuse that they're now going to publish and formalises what has been close to normal for a while. I’d be very interested to see your source for this, plus any concrete evidence. I doubt you will be able to provide it, though. |
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a60
I will make the 8100 Class DART my new A Stock.
Posts: 743
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Post by a60 on Apr 11, 2022 11:20:01 GMT
Presumably the service will gradually improve over the 6 weeks once trains start being repaired and come back in service? I wouldn't bet on it, the management have been running a "special operation" on the Met Line for months with complete disregard to the timetable or proper customer information about their intentions, with various excuses and fake news leaked from time to time. This just means that they have come up with a concrete excuse that they're now going to publish and formalises what has been close to normal for a while. Is the “special operation” being run by a chap called Vlad by any chance? What I will say about the present issues regarding the Met is that were it not for this forum, I would not have known about the reduced service until I reached the station. I think communication ahead of time remains a bit of a weak spot. But I think your assessment of the overall picture is not really accurate - the service has been perfectly adequate for 90% of my travels. |
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Post by MoreToJack on Apr 11, 2022 11:30:06 GMT
Having been privy to some of the internal wranglings about customer information you’re far from alone in feeling the current situation should be better advised. There’s a lot of people who aren’t particularly happy with the communications, not least front-line staff.
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Post by bicbasher on Apr 11, 2022 13:27:35 GMT
Would it be possible to extend the Rayners Lane Piccadilly terminators to Uxbridge to give 10tph to the majority of stations on the Uxbridge branch?
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Post by taylor on Apr 11, 2022 13:52:59 GMT
Would it be possible to extend the Rayners Lane Piccadilly terminators to Uxbridge to give 10tph to the majority of stations on the Uxbridge branch? An innocent suggestion!! But assuming they are qualified to drive 1973TS, a. how would you draft in any currently surplus Met drivers from their various signing-in points to take over Piccadilly duties at Rayners Lane and b. given that the typical Rayners Lane to Uxbridge and back to Rayners Lane trip takes around 40 minutes, where are you going to find the extra rolling stock neccesary to fill in the gaps left by the Rayners Lane terminators? So we need four extra sets I think, TTNs and new roster plans for both Met and Picc. Should be able to do that by tea-time.  |
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Post by greenkitten on Apr 11, 2022 14:40:14 GMT
Would it be possible to extend the Rayners Lane Piccadilly terminators to Uxbridge to give 10tph to the majority of stations on the Uxbridge branch? An innocent suggestion!! But assuming they are qualified to drive 1973TS, a. how would you draft in any currently surplus Met drivers from their various signing-in points to take over Piccadilly duties at Rayners Lane and b. given that the typical Rayners Lane to Uxbridge and back to Rayners Lane trip takes around 40 minutes, where are you going to find the extra rolling stock neccesary to fill in the gaps left by the Rayners Lane terminators? So we need four extra sets I think, TTNs and new roster plans for both Met and Picc. Should be able to do that by tea-time. You’d have to cut services elsewhere on the line. |
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Post by AndrewS on Apr 11, 2022 15:18:25 GMT
Customer information-wise, I see that the TfL Status Update page does now refer to a Special Service (not "Reduced" of course!) and gives the service interval on the various branches. They still can't resist muddying the waters with a mention of Delays, which to me at least primarily means more slowly or stopping unwontedly rather than running less often; delays on the M25 doesn't mean fewer vehicles!
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a60
I will make the 8100 Class DART my new A Stock.
Posts: 743
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Post by a60 on Apr 11, 2022 15:29:42 GMT
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Post by d7666 on Apr 11, 2022 15:41:27 GMT
Presumably the service will gradually improve over the 6 weeks once trains start being repaired and come back in service? Not necessarily. The issue is reported (see upthread) as due to wheelsets recently on the Neasden depot wheel lathe. If - and I see no evidence either way nor do I imply any - the issue lies with the lathe itself, that may take longer to resolve. For example, if it is simply incorrect lathe settings have been used during turning, this might be resolvable by another turning. But, if the lathe itself is somehow faulty, and out of action, that will take a while to sort. They are very special purpose machines. Or, another possibilty is the turning that has been done so far may not allow another turning to fix it and the wheelset is scrap, and on hand stock levels of new wheesets probably do not match the quantity of out of service units. Sure, there are other wheel lathes at Upminster and Ealing Common, but then it is down to getting wheelsets or complete S8 to those depots. I've visited all three lathes, AFAIK there is no restriction on S7 or S8 at any location's lathe, although, obviously, there are operational issues with getting S8 to\from EalingCommon and Upminster. OTH one possibility is that a "stop" or whatever the right term is has been placed on all units that visited neasden within a certain time frame, and these need to be assessed; some might be able to run after inspection. Which brings them back quickly. Without more detailed info, hard to predict right now, we are just guessing. |
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Post by jamesb on Apr 11, 2022 16:48:09 GMT
What is the purpose of the wheel lathe? Is it a case of keeping the wheels 'round' if they have become flat, or is the process a bit more complex? I am guessing that if the wheels have ended up becoming too small, they would have to be scrapped? Presumably the service will gradually improve over the 6 weeks once trains start being repaired and come back in service? Not necessarily. The issue is reported (see upthread) as due to wheelsets recently on the Neasden depot wheel lathe. If - and I see no evidence either way nor do I imply any - the issue lies with the lathe itself, that may take longer to resolve. For example, if it is simply incorrect lathe settings have been used during turning, this might be resolvable by another turning. But, if the lathe itself is somehow faulty, and out of action, that will take a while to sort. They are very special purpose machines. Or, another possibilty is the turning that has been done so far may not allow another turning to fix it and the wheelset is scrap, and on hand stock levels of new wheesets probably do not match the quantity of out of service units. Sure, there are other wheel lathes at Upminster and Ealing Common, but then it is down to getting wheelsets or complete S8 to those depots. I've visited all three lathes, AFAIK there is no restriction on S7 or S8 at any location's lathe, although, obviously, there are operational issues with getting S8 to\from EalingCommon and Upminster. OTH one possibility is that a "stop" or whatever the right term is has been placed on all units that visited neasden within a certain time frame, and these need to be assessed; some might be able to run after inspection. Which brings them back quickly. Without more detailed info, hard to predict right now, we are just guessing. |
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Post by njr001 on Apr 11, 2022 17:22:56 GMT
I appreciate and understand the problems a lack of stock causes, it's just very frustrating not having details of the 'Special Service' when planning travel in the peaks. Journey Planner tomorrow lists the normal number of trains in the peak with a Special Service Note We are running a special service on the Met Line until further notice, please check before you travel. Presumably there is a Working Timetable but it's not in the public domain, this must be as frustrating for staff as customers.
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Post by xtmw on Apr 11, 2022 18:10:04 GMT
I don't want to even think about the chaos it was cause if this affected the S7s!
Was a communication sent out to customers? I've had nothing in my emails...
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