Driving without a speedo!

[jimbo]

Just wondered how well drivers did without a speedo, which were only introduced with post-war fleets. The earlier trains provided daily service into the 1980s. The railway contains many speed restrictions for safety, including those for signalling purposes. There may still be some members who remember pre-speedo days. I recall in the 1960s that guidance on speed following passing a signal remaining at danger was to travel at a speed where one could still count the sleepers passing by. This was until a train collided with one stopped ahead, the driver not seeing it as he was busy counting sleepers!

[Chris L]

There are tales of high speeds when 1938 stock operated on the East London Line.

[Dstock7080]

Having only driven limited amounts of District CO/CP/R Stock and Northern ‘38s, (+ various engineering Stock too) I can say it came quite easy, once you realised that ‘series’ motors gave you around 15-20mph, and terminal protection trainstops lowered at 15 or 10mph.
Maximum speeds were just guesses, based upon train performance and car driving speed.

R Stock did have a box on the wall called a “speedometer” but was more akin to a school physics demonstration about heated green liquids than measuring actual speed.

[spsmiler]

much better days than today with its dystopian obsession in favour of slowness

I would not be surprised if there were hardly any (if any at all) incidents caused by travelling too fast

[Chris M]

Sept 9, 2022 22:46:51 GMT spsmiler said:

I would not be surprised if there were hardly any (if any at all) incidents caused by travelling too fast

A (likely incomplete) list of incidents where one cause was "excessive speed":
London Transport
London Regional Transport

[spsmiler]

Information was rarely collated in olden days, however what I did find are instances of travelling too fast whilst 'running under the "Stop and Proceed" rule' which is a *very* different story.

If anything what I found suggests that travelling a little over speed limits at normal times have not prevented accidents - because there were none. Obviously the circumstances of the location are important too, as are weather and track conditions if outdoors.

[towerman]

I’m surprised the two major collisions at Leyton(one fatal to driver)aren’t on that list.

[towerman]

There was also one in Neasden Depot in the 70s,an A stock entered the depot travelling around 30mph and collided with a Bakerloo train writing both off.Went past the Depot on a BR train that night the trains concerned were “steepled”at the point of impact.The driver concerned got away with a broken arm but lost his job.

[rincew1nd]

On the Talyllyn Railway one loco was fitted with a Speedo as a trial, it was promptly removed at the request of the track gang as the drivers had been driving slower than the limits and were now driving at them

[selbiehouse]

I recall with pleasure travelling on the four Watford Junction Bakerloo Line trains.   The crews were finishing and on the long sections between Hatch End and Carpenders Park and Carpenders Park and Bushey the drivers really used to wind them up and then hit the brakes hard.   The smell was quite something.   Happy days!

[roythebus]

I worked on the Q/CP/CO stock on the District 1970-73. No speedometers on them. As others have said, shunt would give 10 mph, series would give about 20 mph, parallel whatever the conditions would allow.

Later on I worked on BR on the Waterloo & City which had speedos fitted and that confirmed what I said above. However the SUB stock upstairs had no speedo, but the same speed ranges applied. Driver's judgement.

On a Bakerloo tour of the Met in about 1973 I was in the leading cab on the trip from Amersham, and that train achieved over 60 down Chorleywood bank. The speed of all heritage DC electric traction is restricted by the speed at which the motors can turn caused by the back electromotive force (emf). The way to get a higher speed is to reduce the emf by using the field weakening switch!

As an aside there's a prohibited post above about a spy film featuring a Routemaster bus based in 1957. there was only 1 in service in 1957! The rest didn't appear until 1958/59, so much for historic accuracy. Maybe someone should have told the author.