Short train operation on LU

[jimbo]

My posting on possible 4- and 8-car workings of C stock made me think about other short trains operating on LU. Traditional car-stock allowed flexible train lengths by coupling the cars required. The change to unit-stock with 1938TS restricted the length of trains to that of units. The 1938TS could be split between the two units to allow two short trains in off-peak service, with alternate full-length trains stabling. Trains also operated as 6-cars at times. This varied with 1949TS uncoupling non-driving cars substituting for some middle cabs, requiring these units to be stabled off-peak, but twin middle cabs returned with subsequent builds up to 1967TS. Even when regular uncoupling was abandoned, short trains could be seen on the Epping-Ongar, Woodford-Hainault, Chesham and Aldwych shuttles. One unit of 1967TS remained on the Woodford-Hainault shuttle until the end of trial auto-operation in 1984.

1972TS featured a return to a middle uncoupling non-driving car. Has a 4-car unit ever provided public service? One-person operation equipment is not fitted to middle cabs, preventing that today. A stock and D stock operated short trains on the East London Line, but did D stock ever operate 3-car public service elsewhere? The similar formation 1973TS did once operate 3-car shuttle trains between Cockfosters and Southgate during engineering works, with a possession taking half the platform area at the latter. I doubt the 1983TS ever operated as 3-cars, although all had twin middle cabs. 1992TS could possibly operate in 4- or 6-car formations, the former currently featuring in the shuttle service timetable, although not yet introduced due to current rail gapping issues.

More modern rolling stock has no middle cabs, making short trains very unlikely, although Jubilee Line trains started out as 6-car and became 7-car, and some S7 trains became S7+1 for a while, with one still remaining on the Met. The original order was for S6 trains for the Circle and Hammersmith Lines but was varied to S7 before construction.

[t697]

Completing the S stock combos, we had an S8-1 for a while to start integration testing in the S7 worked areas before an S7 train was available to use. And Bombardier displayed an S stock train as a 6 car at a Berlin rail trade show.

38TS also operated the East London line for a while, presumably as 4 car units?

[Dstock7080]

Dec 31, 2022 7:03:30 GMT jimbo said:

A stock and D stock operated short trains on the East London Line, but did D stock ever operate 3-car public service elsewhere?

Not quite 'public service' but a 3-car D Stock was used to shuttle visitors in/out of Upminster depot during an Open Day (1993?), operating from a temporary platform provided only one-cars length.

There were tentative plans to operate the Olympia shuttle as 2x 3-car but stopping positioning at Earl's Court lead to this being dropped and 1x 6-car stepping-back introduced instead.

[t697]

I seem to recall 83TS only had one air compressor per 3 car unit with various unreliable MA sets taking up most of the other space under the trailer car. So it wouldn't have met the usual rule of having at least two compressors, to run outside depots as a train.

[metman]

I don’t think 1983 stock could run as a three car either. For tests there was a portable compressor fitted in the saloon?

I remember the A stock returning to Wembley Park at the end of the day on Sundays running as a 4 car train.

The 1938 stock on the Northern City ran as 3 and 4 car trains in the early days until the 6 car train formation was settled on.

I don’t think 1972 stock ran as four cars on any of its lines (Northern, Jubilee and Bakerloo).

[towerman]

There was uncoupling on the Met off peak and Sundays,A & D stock ran as units on the East London Line.

[jimbo]

Of course, the two compresssor requirement is a relatively modern one for the older members of the forum! Didn't apply when 3-car 1938 and 1959TS operated off-peak. Since a 6-car had 2 compressors and a 7-car had 3, it led to 6-car 1938TS operating in place of 7-car trains during the Acton Works strike when compressors were in short supply.

[Tom]

1992 stock ran as a 6 car train when performing Rail Adhesion Duties prior to the introduction of the other 1962 stock train.

[metman]

Dec 31, 2022 19:47:40 GMT jimbo said:

Of course, the two compresssor requirement is a relatively modern one for the older members of the forum! Didn't apply when 3-car 1938 and 1959TS operated off-peak. Since a 6-car had 2 compressors and a 7-car had 3, it led to 6-car 1938TS operating in place of 7-car trains during the Acton Works strike when compressors were in short supply.

The two compressor rule was broadly applied on important routes from the about 1936.

A special pool of 1938 trailers (with a ‘c’ next to the car number) was formed when uncoupling was reintroduced on the Northern post war. 3 car trains were used on the Bank/City branch and 4 cars on the Charing X/West End branch.

I don’t think 3 car 1959/62 stock ran uncoupled (except on the Aldwych shuttle) but the 1956 stock did uncouple. Luckily, the trailers on all 1956-62 stock had two compressors to compensate.

O/P stock only had one compressor fitted to the D end driving motor car so usually ran with two units at least.

There were some short trains operated with only one compressor. The Northern City springs to mind but this was deemed a minor service and worth the risk.

[stapler]

Is there any end in sight to the gapping issue with 92TS?
On the other hand, running the Woodford-Hainaults as 8s does not seem to have had a fatal effect on the re-tractioning programme, does it?

[jimbo]

Work on 5 Central Line trains at a time at Acton Works has yet to commence.

The 1973TS operates as 3-car double-ended units at both ends of the line when modified for RAT service.

[d7666]

Define short train ?

e.g. If 3/4 car generally is defined as "short train", or, specifically less than 8car 1992 stock, then surely Waterloo & City is in this thread somewhere ?

[metman]

I think short train is usually considered shorter than the usual peak time offering but everyone will have their own opinion.

Uncoupling ended on the Met in 1980 and short train operation in 2011 when the Chesham shuttle ended (there was one unofficial weekend of shuttles after the official end!).

The network is so busy now for many services short trains just wouldn’t cut it especially as most formations can’t be shortened anyway. Only the 1973 stock and 1992 stock can technically operate as a shorter formation in passenger service now.

[rincew1nd]

Jan 2, 2023 5:15:51 GMT d7666 said:

Define short train ?

e.g. If 3/4 car generally is defined as "short train", or, specifically less than 8car 1992 stock, then surely Waterloo & City is in this thread somewhere ?

I'd say a short train is one that is shorter than what's usually operated. So Central is normally 8cars, this 4car would be short. W&C usually operates as 4car, so something like 2car (though this isn't technically possible) would be a short train.

[spsmiler]

Jan 2, 2023 3:17:20 GMT jimbo said:

Work on 5 Central Line trains at a time at Acton Works has yet to commence.

maybe the Elizabeth line* will abstract so many passengers from the Central line central core that a reduced service will be possible even without shorter shuttle trains?

*especially when running a full service - this is not going to be possible when EL services are reduced due to industrial action

[jimbo]

It was hoped to reduce Ealing branch services when Elizabeth Line shared the load, thus boosting central area service, but perhaps in meantime releasing five trains for Acton Works?

[jimbo]

Jan 1, 2023 10:08:51 GMT metman said:

..... A special pool of 1938 trailers (with a ‘c’ next to the car number) was formed when uncoupling was reintroduced on the Northern post war. 3 car trains were used on the Bank/City branch and 4 cars on the Charing X/West End branch.
I don’t think 3 car 1959/62 stock ran uncoupled (except on the Aldwych shuttle) but the 1956 stock did uncouple. Luckily, the trailers on all 1956-62 stock had two compressors to compensate. .....

When was the Mill Hill East shuttle last operated as a short train? Was that way back in 1938TS days? I recall the train would split into 3- and 4-car portions which then followed each other up and down the branch, passing each other at Finchley Central via the south siding!

[metman]

I believe that was the case.

[jimbo]

Jan 2, 2023 17:36:43 GMT rincew1nd said:

Jan 2, 2023 5:15:51 GMT d7666 said:

Define short train ?

e.g. If 3/4 car generally is defined as "short train", or, specifically less than 8car 1992 stock, then surely Waterloo & City is in this thread somewhere ?

I'd say a short train is one that is shorter than what's usually operated. So Central is normally 8cars, this 4car would be short. W&C usually operates as 4car, so something like 2car (though this isn't technically possible) would be a short train.

The previous W&C stock included driving motor cars with a cab at each end to allow single car trains off-peak, maybe later operated as two-car trains link in place of the five-car usual formation, which was some 8 metres longer than the current 1982TS four-car formation.

[jimbo]

The Waterloo & City Line is intended to revert to 5-car trains when the Government can fund driverless operation to catch up with achievements in Paris. These trains will be adaptations of the new Piccadilly Line trains, with two short bridge cars achieving a similar length to the current 4-car trains. However, without the intermediate motor cars in the Piccadilly 9-car trains, they will require equipment reallocation between the middle motor car and the cab cars! (see table in Rail Engineer) . More of the Piccadilly Line trains could fit the Bakerloo Line. The Central Line may receive an 11-car version, with an added pair of bridge and intermediate motor cars to the Piccadilly Line trains, with shorter cab cars at each end to fit existing platforms.