Last BR train to Epping

[Phil]

When did the last BR passenger train to Epping run?

Reason I ask is because I've just come across a pic of a BR diesel MU (class 125 for those interested) with passengers on and with the destination EPPING. It was taken in 1958.

Is the destination wrong or am I missing something? I thought BR left it to the Central much earlier.

[Deleted]

rbruce1314 said:

When did the last BR passenger train to Epping run?

Reason I ask is because I've just come across a pic of a BR diesel MU (class 125 for those interested) with passengers on and with the destination EPPING. It was taken in 1958.

Is the destination wrong or am I missing something? I thought BR left it to the Central much earlier.

IIRC, 1958 was the last year of BR operation of the Epping - Ongar shuttle. There was a link to BR between Leyton and the tunnel mouths going towards Stratford.

[q8]

The last BR passenger train was later than '58. There were very early and late passenger trains via Leyton Junction in later years and only stopped when the jucnction was taken out of commision. IIRC One or two of the said trains went as far as Ongar.

SEE THIS >>

LNER/BR passenger services were withdrawn as Central Line trains took over, though local freight services lasted much longer and the first and last trains to Epping continued to run from Liverpool Street into the 1960s. Once taken over, the section from Hainault to Woodford was operated as a self-contained shuttle, with only the occasional peak-hour trains running on to the rest of the line (and no trains ever running right round the loop). This changed to the present arrangement in the early 1990s. The north side of the loop was used as a testbed for the Automatic Train Operation later adopted on the Victoria Line.

The section from Epping to Ongar provided a refuge for steam for 8 years while a shuttle was worked by BR on behalf of LU. When electrification was completed in 1957, there still wasn't enough power to start a full-length train at Ongar, and the shuttle remained, but now worked by one or two half-length trains. The section was eventually closed in 1994, and in 1998 it was sold to Pilot Developments, a private operator. Although the track under the M11 bridge was lowered enough to allow main-line stock to fit, no services were ever run. At the start of 2001 Pilot was released from the obligation to run the line and their operating licence was withdrawn. In 2004 the Epping-Ongar Railway Volunteer Society started a Sunday service along most of the route

[Deleted]

Yep and it still is dude!

Yep Br freight did last longer.

And if you take a trip on the line you can see how far we had to dig to get a mainline train under it!

Cheers
James

[Harsig]

I remember this being discussed elsewhere about a year ago. At the time I posted

A bit of further digging has turned up the following entry in the July 1970 issue of 'Underground', The Journal of The London Underground Railway Society
(issue No 103 Volume 9 No 7)

NF 948

The early morning trains worked by the Eastern Region of British Railways between Liverpool Street (main line) station and the Epping line were withdrawn on and from 1st June 1970. The last two trains from Epping - the 05:05 and the 05:35 on Sunday 31 May 1970 in fact ran from Loughton as track work was in progress necessitating an emergency bus service between Epping and Loughton. This withdrawal was only advertised at the very last minute - notices appearing at Liverpool Street at 16:00 Thursday 28th May.

This is a contemporaneous report of the closure which agrees with the date that I quoted earlier so I believe that the 1980 date must be incorrect despite being quoted in several editions of London's Underground by John Glover.

[Phil]

Thanks all- and like the new avatar Harsig!

[rob66]

When I joined LU in 1966, I remember watching the diesal leave Epping before the first passenger train in the morning. I believe they stopped running shortly after - about 1968?

[russe]

Rob - see Harsig's previous reply in this thread.

Russ

[Deleted]

The BR Freight service ran from Temple Mills - as an ex work mate of mine was AYM there in the 1960s - it was kimited in length to about 10 or so wagons and had to have a brakevan at each end.

Some well meaning freight salesman got a bulk order (about a years supply) of bagged fertiliser for Ongar - promptly delivered in a 60 wagon block load to Temple Mills who naturally wanted it sent down in 2 goes of 30 wagons each. This was refused - and as they could only unload about 2/3 wagons a day in Ongar - iot took them about a month to get the whole consignement offloaded - tying up lots of wagons for that period and blocking 2 roads in the yard. No wonder Beeching took such a dim view of wagon productivity - or lack of !.

[Oracle]

www.psul4all.free-online.co.uk/intro.htm

has (if it works) details of the 1963 PSUL listing including details of the trains from Stratford, etc. I published a photo in UndergrounD of the three ACV.....AC Vehicles as in AC Cars of Thames Ditton, who made the Cobra as well as invalid carriages et al, railcars at Epping in 1951 I believe which were running between Ongar and Epping.

Off subject I have also seen photos of what I believe to be Class 15 BTH type 1s (please correct me!) at Highgate. These I seem to recall had trip-cocks fitted and were based at Hornsey and were used on the goods traffic on the Northern via the Northern heights. I should love to know what locos were used on the Central line goods at the time. Stratford-based Type 1s?

[Oracle]

I take it that there are no proposals to re-connect the Central to the NR lines at Ealing Bdwy? There was a connection in GWR days and this survived to the 70s I seem to recall via an extended unelectrified siding possibly from the WB to the Up Slow which you could see from a train on the overbridge east of Hangar Lane Junction if you looked down. I suppose that because of the signalling changes there is now no practical connection between the District and Central which is padlocked:

"Connections
Trains in the District Line platforms at Ealing Broadway can run on to the eastbound Central Line; this connection is normally padlocked".

[Colin]

oracle said:

I take it that there are no proposals to re-connect the Central to the NR lines at Ealing Bdwy? There was a connection in GWR days and this survived to the 70s I seem to recall via an extended unelectrified siding possibly from the WB to the Up Slow which you could see from a train on the overbridge east of Hangar Lane Junction if you looked down.

As far as I have seen when passing the area, the siding you mention still appears to be there - unless i'm seeing something different?
I can't imagine there'd ever be a chance of reconnection between the Central and NR lines as the Central line is a fully automated railway!!

oracle said:

I suppose that because of the signalling changes there is now no practical connection between the District and Central which is padlocked:

"Connections
Trains in the District Line platforms at Ealing Broadway can run on to the eastbound Central Line; this connection is normally padlocked".

As above, the Central is fully automated, whilst the District is 'manual handle'. The connection for this does exist and can be used - but only under possesion because the lines use incompatible safety systems (ie, tripcock / ATP). Like you say it is padlocked when not in use.

[ribaric]

Do the ex-Lillie Bridge engineer's trains not use it? Perhaps they all come from Ruislip depot now (he says, probably answering his own question!).

I do remember BR trains chugging through Woodford in 1969/70 when I was a guard doing White City night shifts. I'm sure there was the occasional steamer. Age dims the certainty of memory. I have no idea what they were doing as I didn't give a monkey's at the time.