Random though for the day: Enfield

[mrjrt]

With the Met taking over the line to Barking and the H&C routed to Aldgate, ( at least until the teacup is implemented ), I was wondering what you people thought of an idea I had. It depends on the quality of the existing services of course, ( of which I know nothing about. )

If they are as shoddy as the impression seem to get from comments about 'one', then how about reopening the link from the Met at Liverpool street to the main lines, and running a service from Hammersmith to Enfield town? The route seems largely residential and could probably benefit from more stations and higher frequency. It would also potentially enable 'one' to non-stop these stations and provide faster services.

Thoughts?

[Deleted]

It would certainly beat going round and round the circle or reversing at Aldgate but can't see it happening.

I heard word that the H&C / Circle crews would run to Wimbledon when the Barking runs go over to the Met main. I also saw a new s-stock 'in-car' route map for the district/circle (No met on there for some reason) which had no pink line whatsoever and the Hammersmith branch being changed to yellow! Whatever the good intentions behind abolishing the circle, there is no way the tourists will ever get ther heads round it and it will cause mass confusion!

[Deleted]

prakash said:

It would certainly beat going round and round the circle or reversing at Aldgate but can't see it happening.

I heard word that the H&C / Circle crews would run to Wimbledon when the Barking runs go over to the Met main. I also saw a new s-stock 'in-car' route map for the district/circle (No met on there for some reason) which had no pink line whatsoever and the Hammersmith branch being changed to yellow! Whatever the good intentions behind abolishing the circle, there is no way the tourists will ever get ther heads round it and it will cause mass confusion!

If anything it will simplify things considerably. The service, from what I can conject, will be:

-Met services to Barking instead of H&C (probably Uxbridge trains)

-Hammersmith to Edgware Road via KXSP and Embankment, and Wimbledon alternately (with a cut back in Edgware Road-Wimbledons)

-Hammersmith to Aldgate via KXSP

The remaining part of the H&C will simply merge with the 'Hammersmith & Circle' (my bets on this name!), since it runs along the same route for its entirety.

And there was no Met on the maps you saw because the Met will have separate, 8 car trains from the H&Circle and District's 7, so different maps too.

Have faith!!!!!!!!! (It'll all work eventually after a period of utter chaos)

[Deleted]

I agree, I think they'll probably name it that, unless at broadway goes mad and decides to name it the Circle, Hammersmith and City line. C&H&C, madness.

[Deleted]

hardcastle said:

I agree, I think they'll probably name it that, unless at broadway goes mad and decides to name it the Circle, Hammersmith and City line. C&H&C, madness.

Well it's a nice transition name because you're just replacing the City with Circle, and it rolls off the tongue nicely too! Now where's my royalties?

[Deleted]

Back to Enfield Town (sorry to hijack your thread mrjrt!), a link at Bethnal Green where the WAGN lines go from 4 to 2 as they head into Liverpool Street would destroy that particular bottleneck. Any closer to LS and the effect would be detrimental I think, unless two new lines are constructed specially for LU trains until Bethnal Green is reached.

I think both the Enfield Town and Chingford routes should run LU surface stock and run into the city, which frees up lots of slots in platforms 1-4 at LS for Hertford East and Stanstead Express trains, albeit at a frequency like the Met north of Moor Park so they fit in well with the one services heading north (4tph is good, especially if 6 or more cars are used per train.

Alas, it'll probably never happen

[Deleted]

How difficult would it be to make an end-on junction at Walthamstow between the Victoria line & the Chingford branch?

Many apologies if this has been discussed elsewhere a while back...

[tubeprune]

The Vic Line cannot be extended any more anywhere. It is already carrying 50% more pasengers than it was designed for. Extensions are not possible.

[Deleted]

innocentabroad said:

How difficult would it be to make an end-on junction at Walthamstow between the Victoria line & the Chingford branch?

Many apologies if this has been discussed elsewhere a while back...

When the Vic was built this was considered, with a junction at Wood Street station. In the end it was decided that it wasn't worth it and trains should terminate underground at Walthamstow Central. The current alignment under Central station means that the Victoria line tunnels pass under the Chingford line ones on a bearing towards Whipps Cross. As such, no extension to the Chingford line is possible.

As has been already said, the Victoria line north of Victoria is full to capacity and cannot be extended.

[Ben]

I always thought that a good idea might be to extend the jubilee from startford up to chingford over the branch. Reopen Lea Bridge maybe. That way St James Can be kept open too. From Walthamstow Central Both could share the line to Chingford. This way Chingford has access to central london and the Docklands.

[Deleted]

There been talk of re-openeing Lea Bridge recently... and also there was mention made of a one-stop-hop from Seven Sisters to Northumberland Park, but this plan appears to have died a very quiet death...

[Deleted]

tubeoperator92 said:

There been talk of re-openeing Lea Bridge recently... and also there was mention made of a one-stop-hop from Seven Sisters to Northumberland Park, but this plan appears to have died a very quiet death...

It was brought up when the Commonwealth Games were considered for London and the Lea Valley Leisure Centre would be redeveloped to be part of that. The funding went kaput or something and the Games went to Manchester, along with any reason for providing this mini-branch.

[Deleted]

benedict said:

I always thought that a good idea might be to extend the jubilee from startford up to chingford over the branch. Reopen Lea Bridge maybe. That way St James Can be kept open too. From Walthamstow Central Both could share the line to Chingford. This way Chingford has access to central london and the Docklands.

If I was in charge they'd already be sinking the Jubilee station at Stratford and extending it underground to Chingford Mount via Walthamstow Central.

As you might have guessed, I'm not in charge!

[Tubeboy]

Well "One" railway have said they are not against re-opening Lea Bridge, which closed July 1985. Perhaps the Olympics could change things for the better?

[Deleted]

Hopefully Tubeboy, but considering the Government can't even get projects that are desperately required going such as Crossrail and Thameslink 2000 (oops, better make that 2012 to coincide!), small projects that are useful but not critical such as Lea Bridge station do not have a lot of hope.

Still, it was interesting to note that in the 2025 report on tfl.gov.uk, it recommends that Chingford line trains be rerouted via Stratford. Too bad for me because I'll have moved out to greener lands by then. Enfield Town would probably stay 'one' forever because it's harder to cut off with all those intermediate stations (unlike the Chingford branch which is self-contained mostly, apart from Clapton and Bethnal Green).

[TMBA]

A60s to Barking, I take its thats what you meant? excuse my ignorance, but would A60s fit into PLaistow e/b without fouling the bay road and would they fit in the bay or main at Barking? Would they fit in Whitechapel platform 1 & 3 are they gonna be stowed in Barking sidings because they wont fit in 21 to 24 roads or they would be extremely tight! all the monitors would have to be moved as well to facilitate.

[Deleted]

tmba said:

A60s to Barking, I take its thats what you meant? excuse my ignorance, but would A60s fit into PLaistow e/b without fouling the bay road and would they fit in the bay or main at Barking? Would they fit in Whitechapel platform 1 & 3 are they gonna be stowed in Barking sidings because they wont fit in 21 to 24 roads or they would be extremely tight! all the monitors would have to be moved as well to facilitate.

By the time the SSL lines are changed the A60s will be gone, since the Met will get S stock first and so there will be no problems anywhere on the SSL network with trains fouling platforms.

[Ben]

When the scheme was first envisaged, it was planned that the A60's would indeed run to Barking; however that would have involved the appropriate enlargements, and would have opened already too...

[prjb]

prakash said:

I also saw a new s-stock 'in-car' route map for the district/circle (No met on there for some reason) which had no pink line whatsoever and the Hammersmith branch being changed to yellow! Whatever the good intentions behind abolishing the circle, there is no way the tourists will ever get ther heads round it and it will cause mass confusion!

Exactly what I said when I showed them to you!

I did have the Met one with me, you must have missed it!

[prjb]

biolizard said:

By the time the SSL lines are changed the A60s will be gone, since the Met will get S stock first and so there will be no problems anywhere on the SSL network with trains fouling platforms.

That may not be the case at all. Plans are still on the table which could see A60's to Barking.

[Deleted]

I thought gauging issues prevented them from going past Aldgate? I did however hear of one that reached Temple before the driver realised he was on the wrong track!

[Ben]

You guys got to see the new line diagrams?!?? Arrgghhh! I knew I should have gone today

[Chris M]

No, this was after the 2009 Stock viewing, as we were in the "Fake Weatherspoons" near Finchey Road. PRJB didn't make it to the meet yesterday (at least not while I was there)

[prjb]

prakash got to see them at work, not on a forum tour.

[prjb]

tubeoperator92 said:

I thought gauging issues prevented them from going past Aldgate? I did however hear of one that reached Temple before the driver realised he was on the wrong track!

Whilst you are right about guaging issues, that is not impossible to get around. The A60's will never go west via Tower Hill though, so they would never officially get as far as Temple even in the 'new world'.