Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2006 19:16:33 GMT
Why did the PWay mob re-lay the up main down the Hammersmith bank from Ravenscourt Park to the bottom of the viaduct with wooden sleepers? The down main is laid with concrete sleepers throughout...
|
|
DWS
every second count's
Posts: 2,415
|
Post by DWS on Mar 11, 2006 19:22:26 GMT
Do not know , may be they had to use up stocks wooden sleepers.
By the way the terms up main & down main are not used on the London Underground.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2006 19:27:23 GMT
They aren't? Most of Harsig's maps of the Met (as well as local terminology on the District) state that when a four-track section is in place, the outer lines are the local lines and the inner lines are the main lines.
|
|
DWS
every second count's
Posts: 2,415
|
Post by DWS on Mar 11, 2006 21:07:44 GMT
Well the tracks between Acton Town and Barons Court are named
Eastbound Local (District )
Eastbound Fast (Piccadilly)
Westbound Fast (Picadilly)
Westbound Local (District )
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2006 2:17:12 GMT
maybe its because north of harrow the mainline is run on the met's tracks and you will always find wooden sleepers around trainstops as there is no holes for the fixing bolts and wooden ones are cheaper
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2006 7:20:44 GMT
They aren't? Most of Harsig's maps of the Met (as well as local terminology on the District) state that when a four-track section is in place, the outer lines are the local lines and the inner lines are the main lines. Between Wembley and Harrow. the inner lines are the local and the outer are fast.
|
|
|
Post by Harsig on Mar 12, 2006 7:46:03 GMT
They aren't? Most of Harsig's maps of the Met (as well as local terminology on the District) state that when a four-track section is in place, the outer lines are the local lines and the inner lines are the main lines. On the Met between Wembley and Harrow ( and until 1954 between Finchley Road and Wembley) the line designations were Fast and Local. These designations are the usual ones for four track sections on the underground. Between Harrow and Moor Park however the designation are Main and Local lines, and my diagrams reflect this. At one time in the Harrow area line designations got very complicated. Following the 1948 resignalling the line designations from Wembley were Fast and Local. The Fast line designation ended at Harrow substation gap where it changed to Slow Line as far as Harrow North Junction, but the Local line designation continued to Rayners Lane substation gap where it changed to eastbound/westbound. The lines through platforms 1 & 2 between Harrow South & Harrow North Junction were called the Main Lines and I've seen the High Level line from the northbound main to West Harrow referred to as the northbound Relief Line. At that time of course there were still only two tracks between Harrow North and Watford South Junctions.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2006 16:14:28 GMT
Thanks for the clarifications everyone.
But it doesn't really answer why they used wooden sleepers. DWS thinks that it was designed to use up the remaining wooden sleepers - does anyone have any other opinions?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2006 17:42:31 GMT
I'm not sure concrete sleepers are suitable for all locations. The use of new wooden sleepers is not that unusual (but I can't think of any other examples right now!)
|
|
|
Post by mandgc on Mar 12, 2006 23:29:39 GMT
Why the concern between Concrete/Wooden sleepers ? Both have been found safe and suitable.
|
|
|
Post by edb on Mar 13, 2006 7:54:25 GMT
I was under the impression that concreate was superior to wood due to the fact that it flexes less and moves less due to it being heavier. This in turn means that the permanat way "mob" have to pack it to a lesser degree. On the other hand however i would have thought that since concreate has less inherant "flex" it is morelikely to break if not pack in enough as the flexing would cause more fatigue and cracking that with wood. Swings and roundabouts anyone?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2006 8:27:09 GMT
theres now a alternative to wood and concrete there is also fibre glass it dont sound strong but apprently suitable
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2006 11:08:07 GMT
There is also the use of steel sleepers - I see them everywhere on NR. Would they be suitable for LU?
|
|
Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,083
|
Post by Tom on Mar 13, 2006 17:37:37 GMT
If you want to go searching for which sleeper is causing the traction earth or track failure...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2006 17:45:19 GMT
it would deffo keep me busy and would keep me out of the depot all day so thats a no not suiltable ;D ;D ;D
|
|
|
Post by edb on Mar 13, 2006 17:58:38 GMT
There is also the use of steel sleepers - I see them everywhere on NR. Would they be suitable for LU? The Steel sleepers seem to be used on chiltern railways between Hampstead and Harrow on the Hill. I woulds suspect the steel has the advantage of being heavy and flexable. Glass fibre bloody strong i would suspect but brittle and flexable
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2006 19:38:38 GMT
There is also the use of steel sleepers - I see them everywhere on NR. Would they be suitable for LU? They'll make handy SCD's ;D
|
|
Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,309
|
Post by Colin on Mar 13, 2006 21:33:59 GMT
There is also the use of steel sleepers - I see them everywhere on NR. Would they be suitable for LU? Certainly not in the cast Iron tunnels, and as has been mentioned - it would cause no end of aggro with traction current and the associated earth faults that occasionally appear. Not one of your best suggestions TOK!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2006 22:14:21 GMT
Well, I knew full well that they wouldn't be too useful in cast iron tunnels, and that using them in confined spaces would only give aetearlscourt heartburn ;D ;D ;D
But surely in the wide-open mainlines of the Met and District, in areas where concrete is not suitable but wooden sleepers undesirable, steel sleepers could be considered...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2006 22:43:38 GMT
u would still get the problems where ever they would put the steal ones down on lul
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2006 23:01:34 GMT
Why the concern between Concrete/Wooden sleepers ? Both have been found safe and suitable. does anyone really give a flying hoot what kind of sleepers are laid, ? the livestock are hardly gonna get off the train at their destination and complain to the station staff that they encountered different types of sleeper during their journey now are they ? they can't even see the things whilst travelling
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2006 23:02:42 GMT
Why the concern between Concrete/Wooden sleepers ? Both have been found safe and suitable. does anyone really give a flying f**k what kind of sleepers are laid, ? the livestock are hardly gonna get off the train at their destination and complain to the station staff that they encountered different types of sleeper during their journey now are they ? They'll complain if the sleepers cause a problem that disrupts the service!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2006 23:09:55 GMT
does anyone really give a flying f**k what kind of sleepers are laid, ? the livestock are hardly gonna get off the train at their destination and complain to the station staff that they encountered different types of sleeper during their journey now are they ? They'll complain if the sleepers cause a problem that disrupts the service! they complain about almost everything else so a few wrong type of sleepers arent gonna make much difference are they
|
|
|
Post by mandgc on Mar 14, 2006 23:24:48 GMT
adw,post # 21-
"Does anyone give a - - - - "
I try not to use those expressions when the children are around
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2006 23:29:42 GMT
adw,post # 21- I try not to use those expressions when the children are around post has been edited
|
|
|
Post by mandgc on Mar 14, 2006 23:29:54 GMT
PS - I know some people ask " where the * * are you ? :-)
|
|
Phil
In memoriam
RIP 23-Oct-2018
Posts: 9,473
|
Post by Phil on Mar 14, 2006 23:35:09 GMT
mandgc, senpicc , adw:
Don't worry about words used. There are not kids about, and we have swear filters to edit words the staff find offensive.
So, go ahead and post what words you like: the system will do the rest. The forum was set up primarily for LU (and ex-LU) adult staff and the 'swear filter' reflects this
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2006 23:39:41 GMT
Yeah, flying hoot, it'll never catch on, stick to the original!
|
|
Phil
In memoriam
RIP 23-Oct-2018
Posts: 9,473
|
Post by Phil on Mar 14, 2006 23:43:23 GMT
Back on topic, I'm not sure where steel sleepers ARE the best option. They were tried on NR as far back as 1948 (or possibly even earlier) but were never widely adopted, so there must have been problems. I believe part of it was that they were so thin they could sink right into the ballast, but I'm not sure whether that's why they were not widely used.
However, as so many things on this forum, the questions are interesting form a technical point of view, but hardly affect the punters. So in a way all are right.....
|
|
Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,309
|
Post by Colin on Mar 15, 2006 0:36:01 GMT
There's one thing that puzzles me with regard to track, even more so when steel sleepers are involved - Water conducts electricity. So how come when it rains, and there's clearly a puddle of water lying on a sleeper, and said water is clearly making a connection between the two running rails via their supporting chairs - why are the track circuits are not affected? EDIT: actually, don't answer my question here - i'll start a new thread in signalling as it'd be more appropriate there...
|
|