SE13
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Glorious Gooner
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Post by SE13 on Apr 9, 2006 19:36:18 GMT
I was recently on The Picc.... And travelled from Kings to Osterley. What I want to know is, do the trains travel quicker underground than on top, or is it an optical illusion? I did record a short bit of the journey on my phone, but the quality is garbage, and not really worth posting the link
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2006 19:47:30 GMT
The linespeed in tunnels is generally about the same or slightly faster. When you think about it, it is safer to travel faster underground because there is no risk of trespassers.
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SE13
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Glorious Gooner
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Post by SE13 on Apr 9, 2006 20:11:15 GMT
The linespeed in tunnels is generally about the same or slightly faster. When you think about it, it is safer to travel faster underground because there is no risk of trespassers. Thanks Although the difference in speed, both directions seemed hugely greater in the tunnels than up top. Again. I'm not sure if it's strictly relevant, but The District trains whizzed past The Picc's on top...
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Apr 9, 2006 21:03:33 GMT
The linespeed in tunnels is generally about the same or slightly faster. In respect of the District you are wrong! The maximum line speed in the defined open sections (Upminster - Bow Road & west of Putney Bridge/Turnham Green) is 45mph. Within the defined tunnel section (Bow Road to Putney Bridge/Turnham Green) the maximum line speed is 35mph. Next time you are in a car or bus at a steady speed look ahead, then look sideways - when you look sideways it seems faster. The same principal applies here.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2006 21:26:58 GMT
Again. I'm not sure if it's strictly relevant, but The District trains whizzed past The Picc's on top... Of course. ;D
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2006 22:15:08 GMT
The linespeed in tunnels is generally about the same or slightly faster. In respect of the District you are wrong! The maximum line speed in the defined open sections (Upminster - Bow Road & west of Putney Bridge/Turnham Green) is 45mph. Within the defined tunnel section (Bow Road to Putney Bridge/Turnham Green) the maximum line speed is 35mph. Interesting! I did not know that! Is the line speed lower because the stations are closer together, or is it lower because the signalling is high-capacity and a lower linespeed was calculated by BAET's predecessors when the route was signalled? Next time you are in a car or bus at a steady speed look ahead, then look sideways - when you look sideways it seems faster. The same principal applies here. Indeed. I have occassionally noticed that when traveling.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Apr 10, 2006 3:08:52 GMT
Is the line speed lower because the stations are closer together, or is it lower because the signalling is high-capacity and a lower linespeed was calculated by BAET's predecessors when the route was signalled? I have absolutely no idea I would imagine speeds would be lower in tunnels because of things like body sway and the air pressure/flow caused as trains move along - I know the SSR is not quite the same as proper tube lines, but just a thought....
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Post by CSLR on Apr 10, 2006 4:48:31 GMT
Next time you are in a car or bus at a steady speed look ahead, then look sideways - when you look sideways it seems faster. The same principal applies here. The closer an object is, the faster it appears to move. Thus, trees by the roadside will seem to flash by while a distant hill will barely move. A tunnel wall a few inches from a passenger will give the impression of a far greater speed than a view across open country. I was once told that the bottom of the windows on HST are deliberately designed at a high level to minimise the view of track and sleepers flashing by, as this caused a feeling of dizziness or nausea in some passengers. For a good idea of how distance affects our perspective, sit on the right hand side of a Northern Line train as it exits from the tunnel at Golders Green and look out of the window nearest to you. As the view changes from the blur of the tunnel wall to the view across towards the depot, the train gives an illusion of slowing suddenly. Even if it is braking as it goes into the open, the change is equally noticeable. I am sure that forum members will know other locations where this effect is even more striking.
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Post by edb on Apr 10, 2006 11:30:16 GMT
I was once told that the bottom of the windows on HST are deliberately designed at a high level to minimise the view of track and sleepers flashing by, as this caused a feeling of dizziness or nausea in some passengers. I Remeber hearing that when Diesel locos were first introduced on BR they had long snouts as people were woriied that the flashin of the sleepers in front of the drivers could cause the same effects. (not good when driving a train at up to 100 MPh) Interesting however no thought process of this types was used on LU. R stock with a snout anyone?
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Post by cdr113 on Apr 10, 2006 19:49:32 GMT
I was once told that the bottom of the windows on HST are deliberately designed at a high level to minimise the view of track and sleepers flashing by, as this caused a feeling of dizziness or nausea in some passengers. I think the windows on MK3 coaches were designed high because the H&S people wanted to reduce the likelihood of people falling out of them in a crash...interestingly I believe this is one of the strongest designs of railway carriage ever built...
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Post by agoodcuppa on Apr 10, 2006 19:55:22 GMT
The HASAW only came into law in 1974. As far as the railways were concerned H&S hadn't been invented, they continued doing thing properly.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2006 23:50:46 GMT
CALLING ALL ADMINISTRATORS could you plese BAN se13's pics at the bottom of his posts please
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Apr 11, 2006 1:05:58 GMT
CALLING ALL ADMINISTRATORS could you plese BAN se13's pics at the bottom of his posts please Admin reply: Much as I dislike a particular sporting team from that area (mines the hammers ;D), I feel he has disgraced & embarrased himself by making such a public display of affection for the aforementioned sporting team. As such I will leave it there so that he can humiliate himself further ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by version3point1 on Apr 11, 2006 10:33:08 GMT
CALLING ALL ADMINISTRATORS could you plese BAN se13's pics at the bottom of his posts please Admin reply: Much as I dislike a particular sporting team from that area (mines the hammers ;D), I feel he has disgraced & embarrased himself by making such a public display of affection for the aforementioned sporting team. As such I will leave it there so that he can humiliate himself further ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D (Come on you Irons!) ;D ;D ;D
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Post by CSLR on Apr 11, 2006 10:53:03 GMT
(Come on you Irons!) ;D ;D ;D That reminds me. I have got some shirts that need pressing.
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Post by cdr113 on Apr 11, 2006 19:07:29 GMT
The HASAW only came into law in 1974. As far as the railways were concerned H&S hadn't been invented, they continued doing thing properly. was referring to the railway inspectorate...thats been about since long before 1974. Health and Safety at work act doesnt apply to passengers I don't think and the first MK3's were built in 75 anyway... ;D
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SE13
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RIP 23-Oct-2013
Glorious Gooner
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Post by SE13 on May 27, 2006 13:25:44 GMT
CALLING ALL ADMINISTRATORS could you plese BAN se13's pics at the bottom of his posts please Admin reply: Much as I dislike a particular sporting team from that area (mines the hammers ;D), I feel he has disgraced & embarrased himself by making such a public display of affection for the aforementioned sporting team. As such I will leave it there so that he can humiliate himself further ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Who says I support them? It just happens to be my favourite station on The Piccadilly Line... ;D ;D
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prjb
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LU move customers from A to B, they used to do it via 'C'.
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Post by prjb on May 27, 2006 14:03:35 GMT
It should say Gillespie Road. ;D
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SE13
In memoriam
RIP 23-Oct-2013
Glorious Gooner
Posts: 9,737
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Post by SE13 on May 27, 2006 14:21:59 GMT
It should say Gillespie Road. ;D I'm not that old!!!
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prjb
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LU move customers from A to B, they used to do it via 'C'.
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Post by prjb on May 27, 2006 16:14:16 GMT
Me neither, thankfully! ;D
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2006 0:32:47 GMT
Theres actually an appeal going about by the locals to have the station restored to its original name, but don't hold yer breath. Think of the costs involved
Changing signs Changing ticket machines Changing bus/train destinations
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Post by ttran on May 28, 2006 9:03:45 GMT
I wonder if anyone's ever removed the 'nal' from a station sign there.
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SE13
In memoriam
RIP 23-Oct-2013
Glorious Gooner
Posts: 9,737
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Post by SE13 on May 28, 2006 9:22:23 GMT
Theres actually an appeal going about by the locals to have the station restored to its original name, but don't hold yer breath. Think of the costs involved Changing signs Changing ticket machines Changing bus/train destinations The Club swear blind that this won't happen. Sir Herbert Chapman was behind the original change back in the 1930's, so the station name is as much part of The Club as it is part of the community..... Are there any official words from London Underground themselves?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2006 20:07:21 GMT
Theres actually an appeal going about by the locals to have the station restored to its original name, but don't hold yer breath. Think of the costs involved Changing signs Changing ticket machines Changing bus/train destinations But then again, arn't fans getting off at the wrong station also a problem? Millwall Park was renamed Mudchute for that reason before the DLR opened.
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Phil
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Post by Phil on May 28, 2006 22:08:45 GMT
But surely, the idea of Millwall fans ending up in the Mudchute (look it up if you want to know what it was originally) is rather appealing.....
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SE13
In memoriam
RIP 23-Oct-2013
Glorious Gooner
Posts: 9,737
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Post by SE13 on May 29, 2006 7:23:44 GMT
Theres actually an appeal going about by the locals to have the station restored to its original name, but don't hold yer breath. Think of the costs involved Changing signs Changing ticket machines Changing bus/train destinations But then again, arn't fans getting off at the wrong station also a problem? Millwall Park was renamed Mudchute for that reason before the DLR opened. Given the distance involved to the new ground, fans would still use Arsenal station, or Finsbury Park, much as they do now... Surely there is no need for change... Besides which, every Arsenal fan I know doesn't want a change. We always referred to Highbury as "Arsenal" and the new ground will still be mentioned the same way... "Are you going to The Arsenal today" and so on.....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2006 7:58:48 GMT
Having investigated the area, Drayton Park on the M-F Only Moorgate - Finny P, is right under one of the terraces. Holloway Road is just a bit further [6 minute walk] up the road.
Are you going to Gillespie Road?
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Post by trainopd78 on May 30, 2006 7:25:51 GMT
The linespeed in tunnels is generally about the same or slightly faster. In respect of the District you are wrong! The maximum line speed in the defined open sections (Upminster - Bow Road & west of Putney Bridge/Turnham Green) is 45mph. Within the defined tunnel section (Bow Road to Putney Bridge/Turnham Green) the maximum line speed is 35mph. Where did you get that info Colin? Just been through line suppliment and line speed is 45 throughout unless a PSR / TSR/ ESR sign is displayed. (trying to keep me on my toes!! ;D) We do have some 35mph restrictions in zone 1, being westminster to St. James's pk around the bend, over the crossover west of S. Ken (ok, i know they've just lowered it to 25 but the l.s hasn't been updated yet) and St. James's to Victoria approaching vic w/b platform. I think the increased speed perception, especially on tube sections (as opposed to sub surface) is that you are so much closer to the scenery (a cast iron ring). This gives the perception of going faster when compared with viewing scenery that much further away.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on May 30, 2006 10:31:24 GMT
Where did you get that info Colin? Just been through line suppliment and line speed is 45 throughout unless a PSR / TSR/ ESR sign is displayed. (trying to keep me on my toes!! ;D) In the first instance, my three instructor operators. Within the central area we are not permitted to have the weak field flag up, so that limits the train to 30mph (unless the coasting control flag is raised). Since the line was re-signed, I haven't seen any signs in the central area showing anything above 35 mph. That was the basis of my original post.
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SE13
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RIP 23-Oct-2013
Glorious Gooner
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Post by SE13 on May 30, 2006 21:30:38 GMT
It isn't going to happen!!
Arsenal Station is here to stay ;D
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