Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2006 21:25:10 GMT
The Picc is currently suspended between Hammersmith and Hyde Park Corner at police request.
1. How do the plod request a line suspension from TfL?
2. Are there any details as to why a suspension would be put in? I can think of the usual suspects (no pun intended!)
|
|
|
|
Post by trc666 on Nov 23, 2006 21:52:49 GMT
The suspension was put in place today due to a one-under at Earl's Court.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2006 22:18:48 GMT
Person struck by Tube train dies
One person has died and another was seriously injured when they were hit by a Tube train at a west London station.
The pair were struck by an eastbound Piccadilly Line train at Earl's Court Tube station on Thursday afternoon.
Ambulance crews managed to release one person who was then taken to hospital. The other person died at the scene.
The Piccadilly Line remains closed between Hammersmith and Hyde Park Corner. British Transport Police remain at Earl's Court station.
|
|
Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,310
|
Post by Colin on Nov 23, 2006 22:42:02 GMT
I know more detail - but I'm on my mobile, going home from work at the moment.
The reason for the Police request is that it's a crime scene (which means I won't post everything I know).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2006 22:47:38 GMT
As I went past on the District this evening, they had police tape around the high street exit! Doesn't sound like a suicide attempt either, so I imagine It will be closed until at least tomorrow morning!   Thankfully, the trains on each side of the suspension seemed to be plentiful, so, apart from the reversing times at Hammersmith & Hyde Park Corner, the service shouldn't be too badly affected!  |
|
Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,310
|
Post by Colin on Nov 23, 2006 23:52:22 GMT
Right, I'm home now. The fact that it's a crime scene indicates that the original cause wasn't suicide - that's all I'm saying.......unless of course the media spouts out the whole story - then I'll confirm / correct it. The reason I know the facts is that I worked at Earls Court station for 3 1/ 2 years, so I know the staff well, particularly the control room assistant that helped the BTP in locating the correct video tapes of the platform concerned. There were indeed two people involved, both male, and both went under the train - one was indeed injured fatally. The first person was located and removed fairly quickly, but it took some considerable time to locate the second - which was the fatal. The only thing I don't know is wether the time taken to locate him was a factor - I would speculate that it wasn't given the fact that they both went under at the same place, at the same time (that's definately all I'm saying about the cause  ). In my experience, now that the BTP have declared it a crime scene (I've been involved in some way with three crime scenes since I joined LUL  :  , they will not be in any rush to hand that part of the station back to LUL. If their job goes smoothly, the Picc will most likely resume a full service tomorrow at start of traffic. As always, my thoughts are with the driver - especially this close to Christmas. |
|
|
|
Post by trc666 on Nov 24, 2006 0:43:59 GMT
How is east-west reversal being done at Hammersmith, is it like this?
Arrive on EB fast platform, tip out, into siding, reverse into WB fast, back into service.
|
|
Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,310
|
Post by Colin on Nov 24, 2006 0:55:08 GMT
Spot on  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2006 1:54:18 GMT
I'm surprised they're not taking the advantage of running into Barons Court. Tip out, run into the siding and into Barons Ct fast WB platform and then running normal line from there... probably something to do with signalling or blocked trains mind!
|
|
Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,310
|
Post by Colin on Nov 24, 2006 2:11:42 GMT
Two reasons:
1 - Barons Court eastbound is part of the same traction current section as Earls Court.
2 -there is no signalled move from Barons Court eastbound to the sidings.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2006 2:20:14 GMT
Fair enough! What about running plain line into Barons Ct WB and then scotch & clipping the EB road from the siding...
|
|
Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,310
|
Post by Colin on Nov 24, 2006 2:22:19 GMT
1. How do the plod request a line suspension from TfL? Forgot to answer this one - the BTP has a very good, very close working relationship with LUL. They have complete access to our internal phone system, so they can contact the relevant people using the same internal emergency numbers that staff use (like wise, we can contact them though the internal system). As BTP are a specialist service, they are trained in railway operating procedures so they are effectively as well versed as any member of railway staff. The thing that let's the relationship down is response times - all LUL staff can tell you stories on that one. |
|
Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,310
|
Post by Colin on Nov 24, 2006 2:33:53 GMT
What about running plain line into Barons Ct WB and then scotch & clipping the EB road from the siding... Not sure I follow you on this one..... In any case, Barons Court still had a District service, and is hardly in dire need of the Picc service. Also Barons Court's platforms are islands and are not particularly wide - certainly not to act as terminus / interchange, where as Hammersmith's platforms are plenty big enough. Given the initial incident; the extra hassle of trying to set up a service for one small station that doesn't need it really isn't worth the bother. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2006 3:10:26 GMT
Don't worry I'm talking rubbish as normal! |
|
|
|
Post by agoodcuppa on Nov 24, 2006 7:36:56 GMT
they are trained in railway operating procedures so they are effectively as well versed as any member of railway staff. According to a BT copper I was chatting to on one occasion, they weren't. Do you know when they started receiving that training? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2006 11:56:40 GMT
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2006 12:23:35 GMT
|
|
Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,310
|
Post by Colin on Nov 24, 2006 23:14:23 GMT
According to a BT copper I was chatting to on one occasion, they weren't. Do you know when they started receiving that training? That information came from my "Roles & Responsibilities" book when I trained as an SA. Mind you, that is almost 6 years old now. You would expect that as a specialist Police force, they are at least aware of the basic's, wouldn't you? As for the thread's general subject, the media stories are pretty much spot on....but there's a couple of points I'd like to make based on what I was told by my colleague that actually viewed the CCTV with the BTP (now that the media has basically published the cause): 1 - It was "play fighting and general mucking around by a group of youths which caused the incident" - not an out & out fight as the media are merely speculating. 2 - "the CCTV showed that the older man did not know the youth" and that "he was caught by the youth, who was pushed by others in his group". I hope you'll appreciate that because it was a crime scene - and that was because it could be a murder case, I had to initially be careful about what I posted. Now you know the facts, I think most of you will agree that it was ultimately a very tragic accident for all involved - especially at this time of year. If only people would realise how dangerous it is to 'muck around' on the platform - especially school kids who are always excitable at the end of the school day. What a mess. |
|
|
|
Post by agoodcuppa on Nov 24, 2006 23:41:18 GMT
You would expect that as a specialist Police force, they are at least aware of the basic's, wouldn't you? Indeed, one would hope so. |
|
|
|
Post by trc666 on Nov 25, 2006 0:51:49 GMT
With regards to the suspension, would it not be possible for Piccadilly trains to be diverted to Earls Court District?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2006 0:53:27 GMT
Pic lines are in tunnel down below, but I am aware of at least one time where a 73ts ended up on the eastbound local and went to Glou Road and HSK to get 'back on track'...
|
|
Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,310
|
Post by Colin on Nov 25, 2006 1:58:30 GMT
With regards to the suspension, would it not be possible for Piccadilly trains to be diverted to Earls Court District? Picc drivers are not lincenced for that. As per tubechallenger though, I can easily knock your suggestion! The incident occured at 1610 (or thereabouts) on a weekday - right at the start of the evening peak. You are now suggesting we run even more trains through an already congested area? ;D ;D On top of that, you'd have to tip out every train in platform 2 to reverse it - without the valuable platform staff that are dealing with the original incident, it would take far too long for the train op to do it; and because he is reversing on the main running line east of Earls Court (to reach platform 3 and go back west), you now have a line blocked. Also, platform 2 (the only platform you can reverse an eastbound train in) is the only way off the Wimbledon road - and you have a train every 4 mins from there in the peak. Let's suppose, however unlikely, this ever did happen. Can you imagine how unsafe those island platforms at Earls Court would be? As it was they just about coped. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2006 2:08:10 GMT
You can knock this totally crazy suggestion then Colin... ;D
Consider that you staggered reversing in order to provide a heavier service.
1 in 4 reversing at Acton
2 in 4 reversing at Hammersmith
1 in 4 reversing at HSK?
|
|
Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,310
|
Post by Colin on Nov 25, 2006 2:44:59 GMT
You can knock this totally crazy suggestion then Colin... ;D Consider that you staggered reversing in order to provide a heavier service. 1 in 4 reversing at Acton 2 in 4 reversing at Hammersmith 1 in 4 reversing at HSK? So I take it your Acton reverser is for Rayners and the other three are for heathrow? That's an hourly service to Rayners and a 20 minute service to Heathrow? BTW - what is this obsession with the west end of the Picc? It has an east end too!! |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2006 7:13:54 GMT
The west end of the Picc is the posh end though... ;D ;D ;D
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2006 10:21:43 GMT
BTW - what is this obsession with the west end of the Picc? It has an east end too!! <pedant>I thought it had a west and north end...</pedant> ;D  |
|
Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,310
|
Post by Colin on Nov 25, 2006 12:14:28 GMT
<pedant>I thought it had a west and north end...</pedant> ;D Yes, that's right - Uxbridge is in North West London  ;D ;D |
|
|
|
Post by c5 on Nov 25, 2006 14:45:13 GMT
<pedant>I thought it had a west and north end...</pedant> ;D Yes, that's right - Uxbridge is in North West London ;D ;D The Met (&Picc) between Harrow and Uxbridge is named as West/East so as not to confuse the poor Picc Line |
|
|
|
Post by trc666 on Nov 25, 2006 15:14:39 GMT
What is this obsession with the west end of the Picc? It has an east end too!! Well, some of you 'green' drivers seem to like attempting to reclaim South Harrow by trying to go the 'blue way' at a certain junction beyond Ealing Common... ;D ;D |
|
Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,310
|
Post by Colin on Nov 25, 2006 15:18:07 GMT
And one day it will be ours again ;D ;D ;D
|
|
). 
:
, they will not be in any rush to hand that part of the station back to LUL. If their job goes smoothly, the Picc will most likely resume a full service tomorrow at start of traffic.
