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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2006 16:33:45 GMT
Actually, that would be more than possible. The only problem would be the retention of the conflicting movement at Finchley Central, whoch would still limit capacity and reliability.
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Post by Tomcakes on Apr 5, 2006 16:55:11 GMT
Wouldn't it be very wasteful to use a 95ts full unit? Couldn't a special short unit be assembled (or use one of the 72ts sitting around the network, with a refurb)?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2006 17:18:56 GMT
As I said earlier, it would be folly and costly to mix a 72 with 95s all be it one shuttle train, a) this is a trial, b) lack of flexibility, c) driver/stock familiarisation, and I can think of more.....
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2006 17:19:13 GMT
Why not run it from/to East Finchley instead? then they could make use of platform 2, and then run into platform 3 on the s/b. I don't think that P2 and p3 at EFY are used that much. I'm aware of summat happening in Highgate Depot. At least then, Finchley Central wont become a bottleneck if one train fails in the platform...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2006 20:47:32 GMT
Actually, that would be more than possible. The only problem would be the retention of the conflicting movement at Finchley Central, whoch would still limit capacity and reliability. I don't think it would be more than possible. The High Barnet would be running at 16tph, which is on average a train every 3mins45secs, and thus probably timetabled at a 3min30sec to 4min headway. If an ex-Mill Hill East train is slotted in between these ex-High Barnet services, then this would create 2 consecutive 2min headways. As this train would have to be tipped out, it would cause a delay to the train behind. Realistically on LUL, you need at least a 2min30sec headway for tipping out. Thus reversing in platform 1 makes a lot more sense!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2006 22:54:07 GMT
I think you misunderstood me; I was referring to running the Mill Hill East trains to East Finchley, where they can be tipped out in the southbound Parkland platform, run to depot, reversed and tipped in on the northbound Parkland platform. The conflicting movement I described is an up MHE train crossing the path of down Barnet trains at Finchley Central Junction.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2006 6:40:50 GMT
I think you misunderstood me; I was referring to running the Mill Hill East trains to East Finchley, where they can be tipped out in the southbound Parkland platform, run to depot, reversed and tipped in on the northbound Parkland platform. The conflicting movement I described is an up MHE train crossing the path of down Barnet trains at Finchley Central Junction. Sorry, I did misunderstand you. Reversing at East Finchley would allow for same level interchange in both directions. I think the flat junction at Finchley Central could just about cope with 16tph NB and 20-21tph SB, but only if trains are arriving on time, and have sufficient terminus catch up time to make up for any junction conflicts.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2006 10:57:49 GMT
Sorry, I did misunderstand you. Reversing at East Finchley would allow for same level interchange in both directions. I think the flat junction at Finchley Central could just about cope with 16tph NB and 20-21tph SB, but only if trains are arriving on time, and have sufficient terminus catch up time to make up for any junction conflicts. That is correct. The whole reason in the first place why the line wanted to introduce a shuttle service between Finchley Central and MHE, was to remove the conflictions and hence minor disruption that is caused when SB trains from MHE cross over the flat junction preventing NB trains to High Barnet from crossing over. The shuttle will use platfrom 1 at Finchley Central, making it self contained, so effectively any disruption to the HB service will not affect the MHE shuttle, and vice versa. They would have to run peak services because they will get plenty of complaints about the withdrawal of direct trains to/from MHE - in fact I'm sure they will get complaints about the off peak shuttle anyway. Running a East Finchley to MHE shuttle - will cost more than one train don't forget, if you are maintaining even a 15 minute service. And it will have to battle to find a path through the 16 TPH service that’s already running between Camden Town and High Barnet in the new off peak service for the new WTT. But it is true to point out that East Finchley provides a suitable cross platform interchange for such a proposal. Those two "spare" middle platforms at East Finchley, that could be a well-used resource if only NB trains from Camden Town were able to access them, and likewise SB trains can depart from them to Camden Town - you could provide a much needed reversal point that is away from the conflictions of Finchley Central. But unfortunately they can't!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2006 12:41:00 GMT
Well, in theory they can - all you have to do is replace the road overbridge with twin double-track spans. Then you can put crossovers on the bridge and allow trains from the pipe to run into the n/b Parkland platform, and trains in the s/b Parkland platform to run into the pipe.
The only hassle would be the junctions north of East Finchley - you would need four tracks to provide nonconflicting access to the reversing siding from the Parkland platforms.
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Post by Tubeboy on Apr 6, 2006 12:52:11 GMT
platform 1 at finchley central would be the easiest option, apart from closing the line. The dollis brook viaduct must cost a fair bit to maintain. I dont think that is going to happen though as the line is fairly busy at least in the peaks.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2006 19:59:04 GMT
I was told ages ago by a T/Op that MHE was kept as a convenient reversing point, so that not all trains have to plough their way out to Barnet.
I'd be sad if MHE closed, as I always use it as my park and ride; it being just around the corner from M1 jct 2.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2006 20:38:29 GMT
I doubt if closure will occur - passenger usage is around 0.8m a year. I have fond memories of the Milly Hilly branch. I like the viaduct, nothing like that on the central, unless Greenford of Roding Valley over the M25 is counted...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2006 7:07:11 GMT
I was told ages ago by a T/Op that MHE was kept as a convenient reversing point, so that not all trains have to plough their way out to Barnet. Hang about. Northbound trains can reverse at Fin Cen, so there's no need for them to go to either MHE or HB. Indeed, the image currently on Google Earth shows a train doing just that. At least, it's in the siding between the two MHE lines, so I assume it's reversing. The same image appears to show a two-car train of older stock ( ) heading south from MHE. From the look of the track layout, a MHE shuttle would have to use Platform 1 at Fin Cen. The southern reversing siding seems to connect only to Platforms 2 and 3, so a MHE shuttle reversing in it would get in the way of HB trains in both directions.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2006 10:44:20 GMT
Hang about. Northbound trains can reverse at Fin Cen, so there's no need for them to go to either MHE or HB. Indeed, the image currently on Google Earth shows a train doing just that. At least, it's in the siding between the two MHE lines, so I assume it's reversing. NB trains can reverse via the siding at Finchley Central, and indeed they do during times of disruption. But I think the point was that it was more convenient to reverse via MHE than Finchley Central, coz with FC siding, you need to detrain before you run empty into the siding. MHE, you just run direct there in passenger service.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2006 10:50:48 GMT
Hang about. Northbound trains can reverse at Fin Cen, so there's no need for them to go to either MHE or HB. Indeed, the image currently on Google Earth shows a train doing just that. At least, it's in the siding between the two MHE lines, so I assume it's reversing. NB trains can reverse via the siding at Finchley Central, and indeed they do during times of disruption. But I think the point was that it was more convenient to reverse via MHE than Finchley Central, coz with FC siding, you need to detrain before you run empty into the siding. MHE, you just run direct there in passenger service. But if the train was intended to go to HB, you still have to tip out most of the pax at Fin Cen. And a NB train terminating at Fin Cen can use either NB platform, so it will be out of the way of the following train...
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Post by marty on Apr 17, 2006 11:12:37 GMT
I recently read that the mill hill east service is going to be a shuttle from finchley central ... ;D A MHE Shuttle rings a bell somewhere ... wasn´t it like this for a few months in 1999-2000? (Correct me people I´m not sure)
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Post by marty on May 13, 2006 10:08:26 GMT
I have now been waiting nearly a month for a correction...
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Post by marty on May 21, 2006 18:50:04 GMT
Oh look ... P L E A S E!!!!!!!!!!!
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Phil
In memoriam
RIP 23-Oct-2018
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Post by Phil on May 21, 2006 20:13:28 GMT
I have now been waiting nearly a month for a correction... Isn't it now fair to assume one is not coming............?
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