ETA boards ?!?

[aveyond06]

Hi,
I like watching on the LU website the ETA boards on some stations of the Northern Line.
But, sometimes I see :"unknown'
Like that :
"1. High Barnet 2 mn"
"2. Unknown 8 min"

Weird...some says this is engirerring works, but I don't think it's wise to run engirenning trains during normal service...
Maybe they dunno were lead this train, or it's a train from another line?
I 'followed' once of this train, from Kennington to Camden or further on the Edgware branch. There's reversing sidng or juctions on these parts of the line, no? Weird...

[Deleted]

'Special' is a good one on at Woodford on the Central line when the train is >10 mins away (or something); I'm guessing the system doesn't yet know where the train concerned is going yet, but we'll let an LU signaller reveal all.

[aveyond06]

ah, so...this apply to a train which destination is unknown? :oops:
hard to understand, indeed...
(at least this is better than the subway s in paris, because in this subwya system you never know the real destination of the train, even when it's noticed XD )

[Deleted]

I believe the ETA boards use data from the LU internal computer program called TRACKER. I'm sure TRACKER has been discussed previously on this forum so I won't go into too much detail.

There are aerials along the Northern Line and these arerials feed into the signal system the train number & destination. If because of a train fault, train op fault, aerial fault the train number/ destination isn't entered into the system, it is given a generic train number of 477 and a destination as unknown. The same applies for enginnering trains/ trains being reformed and trains coming out of the depot.

On tracker (and AFAIK ETA) this causes the unknown destination.

On the platform dot matrix, this causes a 'ghost train' to appear and for some reason also removes all the trains behind it from the dot matrix view. So you can be greeted by the "Northern Line" display on the dotmatrix, in the middle of the peak, but in fact there's a train only a few seconds away and a few behind it.

Northern Line management are looking into reducing the number of 477 trains by having reminders at key stations to remind drivers they have inputted the correct train number and destination.

This is my understanding from a non technical point-of-view, I'd be glad to hear if anyone could add a techinal view on these ramblings

[Deleted]

aveyond06 said:

(at least this is better than the subway s in paris, because in this subwya system you never know the real destination of the train, even when it's noticed XD )

Virtually all trains in Paris run from terminus to terminus. Thus there is no need for the dot matrix display to show you the destination of that train. As long as you are on the correct platform, the next train will almost definately run to that terminus.

What the dot matrix system in Paris does lack, is the ability to show messages, such as information about delays or planned works.

[Deleted]

aveyond06 said:

Weird...some says this is engirerring works, but I don't think it's wise to run engirenning trains during normal service...

Why not? It's quite common for engineering trains to run in between trains in passenger service.

[Deleted]

Indeedy... saw one at Earls Court in July during a Saturday heading west... Crawled through the platform, soon as the stick pegged up, the motorman wound up fully, 11 wagons of dirty ballast dashed past...

[Deleted]

the northen line aerial system is called PTI (Positive Train Indentification) the district line had the same system in the 70's between parsons green and putney bridge

[aveyond06]

@stephenk : suree...but ur never sure the train to stop to the station you want to XD (this aply to the suburbs subway system...the 13th line has now a kind of ETA boards, butit's the opnly one...)
---
well, in the northern line, where tunnels are tubes, and where there's a lot of passenger trains, engirrering works are quite disturbing, no? and what could a enginerring train do during pasenger service?

[Deleted]

aveyond06 said:

@stephenk : suree...but ur never sure the train to stop to the station you want to XD (this aply to the suburbs subway system...the 13th line has now a kind of ETA boards, butit's the opnly one...)

The trains stop at all stations, and always run to the terminus. So can be pretty sure that the train is going to stop at your destination (unless the station is closed for refurbishment). For the two lines with branches, there are lights in the car sides which tell you which branch it is heading to. Most Paris lines now have ETA boards, and for Line 13 and 7, it tells you which terminus the train is heading to.

For the RER, there are TV screens that tell you the destination, and stops.

well, in the northern line, where tunnels are tubes, and where there's a lot of passenger trains, engirrering works are quite disturbing, no? and what could a enginerring train do during pasenger service?

Engineering trains often need to travel along lines to get to the site of the works before they start, and after they finish. It's not uncommon to see an engineering train with wagons, late on a Friday night. Likewise, engineering trains have to make their way around the system on the way to and from works. It's quite common to see engineering trains on the District Line (West Kensington to Acton Town) around midday on weekdays.

[aveyond06]

@stephenk :
1. Hmm...i've never seen enginerring works on the subwya of paris, and tunels are often very little, so...
that really surprised me...
2. Did you ever take the rer's D Line? Even with the 'SIEL' system (the tv screens) you still don't know if the train will stop where you wanted, if it'll be at time, delayed or deleted
that's because all the newbies nun on D line, and also signalling is very fulty (it's not uncommon to pass signals at danger)

and after checking, lines 4, 13, 1, 7, 10, 8...has a kind of ETA boards (13 to Chatillon - due in 2 min)

Line 14 has also eta boards.

[Deleted]

aveyond06 said:

@stephenk :
2. Did you ever take the rer's D Line? Even with the 'SIEL' system (the tv screens) you still don't know if the train will stop where you wanted, if it'll be at time, delayed or deleted
that's because all the newbies nun on D line, and also signalling is very fulty (it's not uncommon to pass signals at danger)

The RER isn't part of the Paris Metro: it's part of the French mainline system. So your complaint is a bit like saying that the London Underground is no good because of bad train indicators on the line from Kings cros to Hatfield....