Camden - Finchley blockade timetable

[Deleted]

Having had a chance to organise my thoughts, I am of the opinion that the Camden - Finchley blockade timetable being used on the Northern Line is not quite as good as it could be.

The biggest problem I saw was the lack of trains south of Kennington - while Morden itself was quite dead all stations north of there were immensely busy, and on a Sunday no less! The CX and Edgware branches both seemed to suffer from bunching, blocking back and gapping at various times; on Saturday the gaps got to be quite big.

Was the transport of T/Ops from East Finchley the primary reason why the timeable was written the way it was, i.e. fewer trains south of Kennington?

[Deleted]

This topic was discussed previously at

districtdave.proboards39.com/index.cgi?board=northern&action=display&thread=1153350510

soultrain gave a very good reason for the pants timetable.

Sadly I worked last weekend and the timetable is as bad as always. I agree that the tph south of Kennington is not enough. I remember at one time we had a train in 1, 2, 4, 6, 15 mins

Sadly I'm working again this weekend, so yet ANOTHER weekend of hassle.

[mandgc]

Is the Emergency Timetable worked out using the normal number of Drivers booked on to avoid extra Staff Costs ?

[Deleted]

mandgc said:

Is the Emergency Timetable worked out using the normal number of Drivers booked on to avoid extra Staff Costs ?

Yes, usually.

In fact even when the special working requires FEWER drivers, there are still just as many duties, but some will be additional spares for all or part of the duty. In practice DMTs will be much more willing to allow drivers to have the weekend off (e.g. special leave) in such circumstances.

[Deleted]

theonekea said:

Was the transport of T/Ops from East Finchley the primary reason why the timeable was written the way it was, i.e. fewer trains south of Kennington?

Primarily yes.

Also bear in mind the Northern layout as well. With Camden - Finchley closed, all the trains on the Central London branches, have to run up the Edgware branch. Usually on a weekend, there's a 16TPH Bank branch and 16 TPH CX branch service. If all these trains ran up to Edgware, we'd have a 32 TPH service which no way can the Northern Line handle. Hence the entire Northern Line service had to be reduced considerably. Even going down to a 12 TPH on the Bank and CX branches (a very poor 5 minutes service as it is) - combines to form a 24 TPH service up the Edgware branch which is a struggle to manage. So the two requirements conflict with each other effectively.

I've travelled many times on the Northern Line during these closures and have seen it not working well. Lots of blocking back as well in Camden area.

A few months back, I attended a meeting about these closures with an SA from Camden Town who was working during these closures. A very cool dude. He was telling me about how the escalators at Camden Town don't work as they share the same power source as the tracks which are switched off for the engineering works. Which made Camden Town very difficult to manage. I went to a gig at Camden Town one Sunday night and bumped into him at work, and saw how bad it could get at Camden Town station, along with the usual Camden crowd threatening violence on himself and staff. He and his colleagues have put up with alot with the Rail Replacement Bus Service, defective escalators, as well as the usual Camden crowds.

I believe there are 5 more weekend closures of Camden - E Finchley for the rest of the year and then we're done! Tubelines I think will want a further 10 weekend closures of Camden - E Finchley, but when I was at the office (I'm currently on leave for the next two weeks at the moment), I didn't see any applications for them. So there are none for the next six months at least. When Tubelines do book more of these closures, the timetable will be rewritten. It is recognised that its not worked very well. But as I'm sure you can appreciate, especially from the other thread Central Simon linked to, there's not that much alternative.

While on this thread, I'd like to ask everyone whose working on the Northern Line what they are hearing about the Mill Hill East - Finchley Central shuttle that is now operating with these closures. Is it working OK?

The shuttle is meant to run every 10 minutes! Because it had to connect in with the East Finchley - High Barnet 10 minute service. It could have been 20 minutes, but that would have meant a worser service to/from Mill Hill East. It could have been 15 minutes, but that would not have connected in with a train every 10 minutes on the E Finchley - H Barnet line. So the decision was taken to run every 10 minutes - and yes, this shuttle needed to be double manned to facilitate very quick turnarounds! (2 minutes each end I think) - which I thought was a very intensive set up for a lightly used section of the railway. I have these visions of the double ended shuttle being empty for most of the day!

[Deleted]

do the drivers just sit there chatting on the cab-cab phone?

[Deleted]

soultrain said:

theonekea said:

Was the transport of T/Ops from East Finchley the primary reason why the timeable was written the way it was, i.e. fewer trains south of Kennington?

Primarily yes.

Also bear in mind the Northern layout as well. With Camden - Finchley closed, all the trains on the Central London branches, have to run up the Edgware branch. Usually on a weekend, there's a 16TPH Bank branch and 16 TPH CX branch service. If all these trains ran up to Edgware, we'd have a 32 TPH service which no way can the Northern Line handle. Hence the entire Northern Line service had to be reduced considerably. Even going down to a 12 TPH on the Bank and CX branches (a very poor 5 minutes service as it is) - combines to form a 24 TPH service up the Edgware branch which is a struggle to manage. So the two requirements conflict with each other effectively.

Indeed. The pinch point in this case is obviously Camden to Golders Green - I think GG has got about 4tph in reversers, thus giving Edgware 20tph (unless Colindale is used).

Personally I think a 20tph service, with all trains running to Edgware and a 10tph service per branch with all CX trains looping at Kennington would have been better. As usual today there were long intervals on both branches, and the service was creaking as a result. Sure, it's a reduction in service, but a regular train every 6 minutes is better than an irregular train that is supposed to be every 5 minutes.

[Deleted]

theonekea said:

Indeed. The pinch point in this case is obviously Camden to Golders Green - I think GG has got about 4tph in reversers, thus giving Edgware 20tph (unless Colindale is used).

Personally I think a 20tph service, with all trains running to Edgware and a 10tph service per branch with all CX trains looping at Kennington would have been better. As usual today there were long intervals on both branches, and the service was creaking as a result. Sure, it's a reduction in service, but a regular train every 6 minutes is better than an irregular train that is supposed to be every 5 minutes.

Thats all with hindsight. A train every 5 minutes is kind of like the unofficial acceptable benchmark across most of the network and anything less will be creating a whole new set of problems. Also with a train every 6 minutes, the consequences of having one train cancelled would then be even worse. Ultimately you never know how a timetable will work unless you've tried it.

At the moment there's a train reversing every 10 minutes at Golders Green (6 TPH), leaving 18 TPH to run to/from Edgware. It was fed back as Edgware struggles to cope with 20 TPH for a long period of time.

Your suggestion of having a train every 6 minutes on the central branches, that may well be the front runner for any future rewrite. I also think they have to ensure any future closures do not clash with Victoria Line shutdowns, where a reduced service is run as a result. A Rail Replacement Bus Service running between Archway to Highbury & Islington I reckon could have diverted some of the load on Camden Town.

[Deleted]

What TfL should have done was set up an ad-hoc fund for the GN&CR to be opened during the shutdowns, with a half-hourly service diverted to Moorgate and a replacement bus running from East Finchley to New Southgate and from East Finchley to Finsbury Park.

[Deleted]

I'd personally wouldn't like to see a 10tph service Kennington - Morden.

Personally I still think combine the CX closures and Finchley closures and create a Morden - Edgware via Bank 20tph. Nice & Simple. Plus reduce the number of weekends of closure.

As a sideline, the current Northern Line service:


Morden 12 mins
Morden 19 mins
Morden 21 mins
Morden 22 mins
Morden 26 mins

Luckily I'm off next weekend. HOORAY ;D