Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2006 16:49:00 GMT
www.trainweb.org/tubeprune/Stockwell-lsw5-8.gifWhy is U5 a running signal instead of a shunt signal? And why are there so many gaps in the signalling - were there plans to add a facing crossover to this site? Also, while at Stockwell today around 1345 I noticed a train that seemed to be in distress; the train was parked on the n/b line in the crossover cavern, with the rear J door open and the T/Op yelling up the tunnel at four station staffers hanging off the headwall. The train eventually managed to pull forward behind U5 and reverse into the s/b platform (which was HEAVING!!!!), but when the train started to move, the T/Op opened the J door, turned on his Bardic and stuck it out the doorway to examine the track he was traveling over! Halfway across the crossover, he jerks to a halt, shuts the door and drives the train the rest of the way into the station, and then finally lets the enormous crowd into the train. Can anyone offer any ideas as to what the train's problem could have been?
|
|
Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,095 
|
Post by Tom on Nov 19, 2006 19:42:47 GMT
U5 is a colour light as the route holding over the points is to passenger standard and an appropriate speed overlap exists on the next signal.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2006 19:58:23 GMT
Fascinating. Why would such a facility be provided for a move where no passengers are carried?
|
|
|
|
Post by tubeprune on Nov 20, 2006 9:43:02 GMT
Fascinating. Why would such a facility be provided for a move where no passengers are carried? Whatever the reason, I think it would be a good idea to ensure that all signalling renewals at emergency crossovers and reversin sidings should be designed for full interlocking. That way, passengers can be carried. This will speed up turn rounds no end. |
|
|
|
Post by mandgc on Nov 21, 2006 8:15:55 GMT
I wonder if Signal U 5 really is a Running Signal, with all the safety devices normally associated with these signals, rather than a Shunt Signal intended for trains not carrying passengers and is mistakenly shown on the diagram.
For the signal to be used by a Passenger Train Single Line Working would need to be in force and,though provision is made for this, it is now too restrictive to be brought into use. I am not aware of any similar crossover with a signal in this location that is provided with a Running Signal.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2006 9:25:35 GMT
All of the trailing crossovers on the Victoria Line have running signals for wrong-road traversal after doing a main line shunt.
|
|
|
|
Post by tubeprune on Nov 21, 2006 16:01:52 GMT
What I meant by suggesting running signals for reversing moves was that the need to check no passengers are left on the trains would be removed. Anyone not awake when told the train is termininating could be left on and the train reversed without wasting time checking each car first.
|
|
|
|
Post by mandgc on Nov 22, 2006 22:55:13 GMT
Running signals for Wrong Road Shunts.
You are quite right. My appologies. Could the 'Standardisation, or Simplification' of the signals be connected with the Automatic Working of the trains?
I see that moves to a Dead End Siding are still controlled by a Shunt Signal.
|
|
|
|
Post by tubeprune on Nov 23, 2006 8:13:23 GMT
Running signals for Wrong Road Shunts. You are quite right. My appologies. Could the 'Standardisation, or Simplification' of the signals be connected with the Automatic Working of the trains? I see that moves to a Dead End Siding are still controlled by a Shunt Signal. The shunt signal indicates to the driver that he must proceed at such a speed that he can stop at any obstruction, e.g buffer stops, another train etc. If he saw a green signal, it would indicate normal speed was OK but, of course, it's not, as a number of drivers have discovered over the years. |
|
|
|
Post by mandgc on Nov 23, 2006 8:37:02 GMT
"Normal Speed Was OK" (Tubeprune's # 8)
Are you implying that some Drivers are being 'misled ' by a Green Aspect similar to that that would be displayed at Stockwell ?
|
|
|
|
Post by tubeprune on Nov 23, 2006 14:22:14 GMT
"Normal Speed Was OK" (Tubeprune's # 8) Are you implying that some Drivers are being 'misled ' by a Green Aspect similar to that that would be displayed at Stockwell ? No. Perhaps I did not make myself clear. What did I write that made you think so? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2006 19:27:14 GMT
the bakerloo north to south shunts at Lambeth, Picc and Padd are also coloured light signals, as is the stick into London Road depot reception road but there would never be a need to take punters up there! Also, Aldgate East east to west is a coloured light signal.
This thread is very similar to the Paddington one in the Bakerloo section. ;D
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2006 19:57:51 GMT
Harsig did say once that there was a time when the general thinking amongst the S&T planning and design people was to provide colour light signals at all crossovers where the primary movement would be between running lines, with shunt signals being relegated to movements off the running lines.
|
|
|
|
Post by mandgc on Nov 24, 2006 0:13:17 GMT
Sorry, Tubeprune ! It was your quote:
"A Green signal - - -would indicate Normal Speed was OK but - - -it isn't ".
What is 'Normal Speed' ? Is it not the Authorised Speed for the section of track in advance of the Signal ( ie. over the Crossover ) which all Drivers should know ? If so what is it that "a number of Drivers have discovered?
|
|
|
|
Post by mandgc on Nov 24, 2006 5:44:17 GMT
Running and Shunt Signals.
There seems to be some confusion here. As I see it a Running signal is (nowadays) always a Two Aspect, (Red/Green,) Colour Light Signal. A Shunt Signal can be a, usually Short Range, Two Aspect (Red/Green) Colour Light Signal OR a Floodlit Disc Semaphore Signal (or a modern representation of a disc, whose technical term I can't call to mind)
The Running Signals, used by Passenger Trains, are required to have a more sophisticated locking and detection system than is required for Shunt Signals which are not used for Passenger moves.
At Stockwell Signal U9 is used for Passenger Trains returning Southwards while Signal U7 is only used for Shunt Moves from the SB to the NB Platform.
(I do not know if any special conditions have been applied to Signal U5 and others elseware but they are not essential, perhaps one of our 'Signal Linemen' can clarify.
|
|
