96TS

[towerman]

On the surface they're all putting on a brave face and saying it's ahead of schedule,and actually converting 6 cars to 7 cars they are,but they can't seem to get the converted trains commissioned quick enough.I reckon there are a few tightening sphincters amongst senior project management.

[Deleted]

towerman said:

Now the extra car is in lots of defects seem to be appearing when the trains are put in service

Were these defects not picked up when the first 7-car train was made up a few months ago? Or are the defects caused by something different, such as the cold weather?

[q8]

Suspect the major defect was of the 'OOOh that'll cost money, let's see if it goes away' variety.

[DWS]

Well some trains must be serviceable as from 10.30 hours this morning the Jubilee Line is reopening with a reduced service.

The bus replacement routes will still run until further notice.

[Deleted]

Maybe it doesn't appear so bad after all! There was a ready made reduced timetable available, and if they are operating a reduced service to all destinations, they may well be operating that.

[citysig]

There was a timetable planned for this week - the question of whether it could be used for public running or not was not answered until this last stage of the project got well underway.

The really optimistic chaps believed the reduced service would run from Wednesday (yesterday) onwards.

The service is not that bad either. It's more or less a weekend service (no trying to shove 24tph down the pipe). There are a number of cancellations, but more of these are related to staffing than rolling stock.

The staff they are short of are currently running the last handful of test trains between Stanmore and Stratford, so no doubt the full "special service" will run from tomorrow.

[Deleted]

Congratulations on the Jubilee re-opening "early". I had a ride on my way home from work in one of the new cars. The most noticable changes in the new cars appear to be black flooring between the doors, and new name plate on the door sills displaying "Alstom 1996".

Is the Metropolitan still going to stop at Willesden Green on Friday?

[Deleted]

I guess Mets will continue to stop at Willesden Green on Friday as they scheduled to do so in their timetable for that day.

Theoretically drivers could be asked to non stop Willesden Green as the need no longer exists and to save some time (two minutes roughly). But it will probably only mean trains stacking up outside Baker Street or Wembley Park, waiting for a free platform, or a crew relief, coz the train has arrived earlier than scheduled. So I reckon Willesden Green stopping will continue for tomorrow.

[q8]

Why is it that the wobbly has resumed running to all stations bar Neasden? What's wrong with Neasden?

[DWS]

q8 said:

Why is it that the wobbly has resumed running to all stations bar Neasden? What's wrong with Neasden?

The Builders are still working on the station refurbishment.

The station will reopen on 31st December 2005.

[Tom]

stephenk said:

Congratulations on the Jubilee re-opening "early". I had a ride on my way home from work in one of the new cars. The most noticable changes in the new cars appear to be black flooring between the doors, and new name plate on the door sills displaying "Alstom 1996".

You forgot the more temporary differences - the 'new' smell, clean windows, no graffiti (no adverts either) etc etc ;D

Pleased to say I took a trip Baker St - Westminster this afternoon and glad to see that Tubelines managed it; somehow I don't think things would be the same if it were project managed by Metronet.

[towerman]

They're still not meeting even the reduced timetable requirements,only 6 trains out of 16 left SMD Thursday morning.

[towerman]

Friday morning 6 trains short at SMD.

[Deleted]

towerman said:

Friday morning 6 trains short at SMD.

Well something has to go wrong or it wouldn't be PPP!

[greatplum]

Which end of the train are the new carriges on - the front or the back (North or south!)

[Tom]

3rd car from the east end.

[q8]

Is that now a four car unit then? If so the trains are the wrong way round. The criteria is [or was] always 4 cars west and south and 3 cars east and north.

[Harsig]

q8 said:

Is that now a four car unit then? If so the trains are the wrong way round. The criteria is [or was] always 4 cars west and south and 3 cars east and north.

Yes & No. With the Jubilee Line it is impossible to meet this criteria since the line designation changes at Green Park from NB/SB to EB/WB such that the four car unit (if such it is) is at the South or East end of the train.

[Phil]

AFAIK the jubblystock does not have centre cabs to the 3-car units, so the idea of east and west for the half-sets is irrelevant.........

[citysig]

soultrain said:

I guess Mets will continue to stop at Willesden Green on Friday as they scheduled to do so in their timetable for that day.

Theoretically drivers could be asked to non stop Willesden Green as the need no longer exists and to save some time (two minutes roughly). But it will probably only mean trains stacking up outside Baker Street or Wembley Park, waiting for a free platform, or a crew relief, coz the train has arrived earlier than scheduled. So I reckon Willesden Green stopping will continue for tomorrow.

They spent quite a bit of money making Willesden smarter and safer for the purpose of this week. Let's not waste it ;D

The stop at Willesden has not been timetabled so generously that any congestion would occur if they didn't stop there. Yesterday I had to watch the diagram closely to see if they were still stopping there. It doesn't take that much time.

[q8]

rbruce1314 said:

AFAIK the jubblystock does not have centre cabs to the 3-car units, so the idea of east and west for the half-sets is irrelevant.........

Niether did 'R' stock have centre cabs in a six car train but they were always formed with the 4 car unit west end. All handed stocks were formed as my earlier post stated. So why have they changed it now?

[Phil]

harsig said:

Yes & No. With the Jubilee Line it is impossible to meet this criteria since the line designation changes at Green Park from NB/SB to EB/WB such that the four car unit (if such it is) is at the South or East end of the train.

Harsig has the answer, Q8: yer pays yer money and yer takes yer choice. The new (4) cars ARE at the southbound end.


(but that means they're also at the eastbound end )

[towerman]

Basically it was easier to put it in the south/east end as that is the end the extra car will enter the shed from.I believe in the early days of the project the plan was to put the extra car in the north/west end unit,but then the awkwardness of doing this was realised.In answer to Q8,on all lines,except Bakerloo,a "right way round" train will have the "A" end(even No)facing north/west.

[Deleted]

citysig said:

They spent quite a bit of money making Willesden smarter and safer for the purpose of this week. Let's not waste it ;D

The stop at Willesden has not been timetabled so generously that any congestion would occur if they didn't stop there. Yesterday I had to watch the diagram closely to see if they were still stopping there. It doesn't take that much time.

I heard something about how apparently it was cheaper to run a bus service than to make the Met platforms at Willesden Green to be safe to use! It was the right call though IMO, now you know it can be used again for any future emergency or engineering work - with the right supervision.

When Piccs stop at Turnham Green early mornings and late evenings, you have an extra run time of 1.5 minutes added - and I just thought it would have been larger for something like Mets stopping at Willesden Green as they travel at higher speed, and the braking distance must be somewhat greater for massive rolling stock like the Mets

[Deleted]

soultrain said:

When Piccs stop at Turnham Green early mornings and late evenings, you have an extra run time of 1.5 minutes added - and I just thought it would have been larger for something like Mets stopping at Willesden Green as they travel at higher speed, and the braking distance must be somewhat greater for massive rolling stock like the Mets

There isn't much difference in speed, the met line speed at Willesden is 50mph and the Picc at Turnham Green is 45mph. There is a quite big difference in acceleration though, A60s accelerate like slugs, an A60 will take a couple of minutes to get back to linespeed whilst a Picc will be back within a minute or so.

[q8]

towerman said:

In answer to Q8,on all lines,except Bakerloo,a "right way round" train will have the "A" end(even No)facing north/west.

Yes, and that was always the case. So now the Bakerloo and Wobbly are the only lines with trains 'wrong way round'. [Possibly because of the Baker Street connecting link]

[q8]

rbruce1314 said:

harsig said:

quote]

Harsig has the answer, Q8: yer pays yer money and yer takes yer choice. The new (4) cars ARE at the southbound end.


(but that means they're also at the eastbound end )

and that my freind is the WRONG end.

[Phil]

q8 said:

rbruce1314 said:

harsig said:

quote]

Harsig has the answer, Q8: yer pays yer money and yer takes yer choice. The new (4) cars ARE at the southbound end.


(but that means they're also at the eastbound end )

and that my freind is the WRONG end.

Am I missing something here: this is the earlier quote from you, Q8

q8 said:

Is that now a four car unit then? If so the trains are the wrong way round. The criteria is [or was] always 4 cars west and south and 3 cars east and north.

And on the jubbly they can be west OR South but not both. The 'powers' have obviously chosen South rather than West

More to the point though, does 96 stock have A and D ends (i.e. is it handed), and if so are the trains 'right way round' for As and Ds?

[Deleted]

rbruce1314 said:

More to the point though, does 96 stock have A and D ends (i.e. is it handed), and if so are the trains 'right way round' for As and Ds?

The 96s do have an A and D end. The A ends are numbered 96002 - 96118 and D ends are 96001 - 96117. While I was over there, they were always the right way round!

Edit - These were the numbers when I was over there in 2001! Things may have changed since!!!

[Tom]

q8 said:

towerman said:

In answer to Q8,on all lines,except Bakerloo,a "right way round" train will have the "A" end(even No)facing north/west.

Yes, and that was always the case. So now the Bakerloo and Wobbly are the only lines with trains 'wrong way round'. [Possibly because of the Baker Street connecting link]

The Bakerloo has something to do with the position of the UNDM to make shunting easier in Stonebridge Park - I can't remember exactly.