New use for charing cross

[Tubeboy]

Any other members read that the dlr and tfl have plans to extend the dlr from bank to the disused jubilee platforms at charing cross. The only work needed really[at cc] would be to replace the escalators. Therefore the only big costs would be the tunelling. Its role would ease pressure on the east west corridor[mainly central and district lines] until crossrail comes along[whenever that will be] . Work on the extension wont start [if it gets off the ground] until 2010, presumably in time for the olympics.

[Deleted]

I can't find anything on the TfL website - where have you heard about it?

It sounds like a good idea if the money can be found. There must be quite a lot of commuters into CX who want to head into the square mile. I travel into CX on the mainline to get to work, and not all the trains stop at London Bridge so changing there for Cannon St is not always possible. Also presumably people living in NW London currently coming down the Jubilee and changing at Bond St for the Central or Westminster for the District.

Apparently the Jubilee tunnels continue quite a way past CX platforms, almost as far as Aldwych station, so it's probably about a third of the way to Bank already.

[Deleted]

If only it could be built in time for the Olympics!!!

I have read that, and I think there was even a thread about this some time back.

I personally think its a good connection to be built, extending it to use the CX platforms - the key thing is though that the tunnelling costs will be prohibitive, and ultimately will be the projects downfall.

And you may not be able to naturally extend the DLR line from Bank, unless very sharp bends are taken or another branch is constructed in addition to the Tower Hill and Bank branches of the DLR - this is anecdotal I stress.

Another thing to consider is that those disused CX platforms are regularly used during disruption on the Jubilee Line. I'd guess several times a month easily. If that flexibility was removed, then whenever a service supsension happened, rather than suspending from Green Park to Waterloo, it will then be supsended Finchley Road to Waterloo, which is increasingly disruptive. If the Jubilee line gives up access to the CX platforms, then they will have to live with large scale service suspensions during incidents (like on the Picc), or invest in installing some simple crossover on that long stretch of line.

[Deleted]

Another thing I thought of is that if this did happen, we'll no longer see every single advert and pop video that uses the tube, being filmed at Charing Cross any more!!

[Deleted]

While it's good that TfL are considering new plans in the Central area (and not bombarding Stratford with more and more rail projects!), my only fear is that the DLR will not be able to cope with the potential patronage. This new route may well take off as the 'new Central line' (which in itself needs relieving, and thus is why this project is a good idea). This could conjure up a lot of passengers using the new branch. But I can see many people using this new extension, and I'm not sure that the DLR will be able to cope with demand, with its one 3 car train every few minutes (as I'm aware, Bank trains are crowded anyway. Yes, some people may instead go to CX now, but it's possible many new patrons may come instead).

I say bring in a new tube line as the 'second Central line' instead, rather than the DLR which, while previously successful, will never be able to have the capacity of an Underground train.

Apologies for being a cynic, but while the DLR is a cheap and cheerful solution, don't underestimate the capacity for customer growth either, especially when considering the East-West corridor.

[Tubeboy]

I read about this story in modern railways magazine, march 2006 issue p54. A few pages later there is a 3 page article on the signalling upgrade for the jubilee and northern lines.

[Deleted]

biolizard said:

Apologies for being a cynic, but while the DLR is a cheap and cheerful solution, don't underestimate the capacity for customer growth either, especially when considering the East-West corridor.

Cheap and cheerful solutions may be the only ones we can actually afford.

[markextube]

Umm although the idea of extending the DLR to Charing cross was discussed in the magazine, in reality it will most probably never happen for a number of reasons.

The DLR at Bank ends up pointing northbound towards Moorgate station and a very sharp curve would be needed for Charing X also the tunnels would have to be re-bored.

The have been ideas for the DLR to be extended to moorgate and taking over the great northern tunnels northwards and beyond. A major plus for this is that both the DLR and great northern tunnels are extremely close and almost aligned, also the tunnels are of main line gauge, which can accomadate the DLR vehicles without any major tunnel work.

With this in mind the DLR could run towards finsbury park and then across the old disussed route to Highgate high level station where the tunels are large enough and terminate. This would open up areas of london such as muswell hill and crouch end which need more rail transport. This would also relieve a bit of pressure from the northern line from highgate, via kings cross to bank.

[dunois]

Charing Cross Jubilee should be used by a new east-west line rather than the DLR which like all light-rail projects has proven himself in need to be helped by a quicker, higher capacity tube line.

[sm]

wasnt the original plan to extend the jubly line to aldwych and beyond? why not just do that? (and reopen aldwych - holborn )

[Deleted]

I think it might be a good idea if there was a second route from Stratford, branch off at Canning down to Thamesmead, Woolwich and to New X, then back to Ch X

[Deleted]

sm said:

wasnt the original plan to extend the jubly line to aldwych and beyond? )

Yes, it was meant to go to Fenchurch Street, but then it was replaced by the route via Docklands.

[Deleted]

Connecting the GN&CR to the DLR and running DLR trains to Highgate would be quite impossible, for a number of reasons:

- the gradient needed to get from the level of the DLR to the level of the GN&CR would be nightmarish.
- the presence of various underground structures in the Bank area would preclude any tunnel boring.
- the loss of the GN&CR for FCC services to Welwyn Garden City would not be possible until after the GNR main line was connected to the Widened Lines via the new tunnel.

[Deleted]

tubeoperator92 said:

I think it might be a good idea if there was a second route from Stratford, branch off at Canning down to Thamesmead, Woolwich and to New X, then back to Ch X

Bit of a long way round, don't ya think?

It's possible, but like all projects it's a case of justifying the cost to the Treasury (i.e. if it doesn't pay for itself within 5 days of opening then Mr Brown ain't gonna provide!).

What would be interesting is if the line was carried on past Charing Cross, through Chelsea (ala Hackney-Merton line) to somewhere maybe?

[edb]

I would think though that any attempt to ease strain on the Central line is good. It appears to be full and busy 24/7. Living at ealing broadway i use it not only to commute but also to have a social life. Cross rail, DLR extension cannot come soon enough

[Deleted]

The Victoria Line is the line most in need of relief, with a Chelney/Crossrail Line 2. The Central Line just needs more trains!

If a DLR extension was to be of more use, it would be better to extend it towards Moorgate, Farringdon or even Kings X. The Jubilee Line already serves Docklands from the South, so a DLR extension to Charing X wouldn't really improve access from S London to Docklands. Access isn't easy to Docklands from N and NE London, so a DLR extension as described above may be beneficial. This also makes more sense as the DLR is already heading in that direction.

[Deleted]

stephenk said:

If a DLR extension was to be of more use, it would be better to extend it towards Moorgate, Farringdon or even Kings X. The Jubilee Line already serves Docklands from the South, so a DLR extension to Charing X wouldn't really improve access from S London to Docklands. Access isn't easy to Docklands from N and NE London, so a DLR extension as described above may be beneficial. This also makes more sense as the DLR is already heading in that direction.

But as TOK already stated, a Moorgate extension would be a very hard job to do. Kings Cross could be an idea though (would help the Central and Northern, anyway). Having said that, you might get there faster going to London Bridge via Bank Branch and getting a Jubilee to Canary Wharf?

[Deleted]

biolizard said:

stephenk said:

If a DLR extension was to be of more use, it would be better to extend it towards Moorgate, Farringdon or even Kings X. The Jubilee Line already serves Docklands from the South, so a DLR extension to Charing X wouldn't really improve access from S London to Docklands. Access isn't easy to Docklands from N and NE London, so a DLR extension as described above may be beneficial. This also makes more sense as the DLR is already heading in that direction.

But as TOK already stated, a Moorgate extension would be a very hard job to do.

I would strongly disagree. Linking the DLR with the Northern City (or whatever it's called this week) would be very difficult if verging on impossible. But just running the DLR at very deep level to Moorgate should not be a problem. The DLRs headshunt already runs half way to Moorgate.

[arossi12]

If the tunnels are already dug, why didn't they continue the line extension in the first place? I know the plan was proposed back in the 70's, but the new extension doesn't seem to take any pressure off of other lines, IMO. A renewal of the "original" JLE sounds like a good idea to me. Besides, I thought there would be a conflict if the DLR extends to those platforms, while the Jubilee Line has complete access to the tunnels. Doesn't seem to make much sense.

[Deleted]

stephenk said:

biolizard said:

But as TOK already stated, a Moorgate extension would be a very hard job to do.

But just running the DLR at very deep level to Moorgate should not be a problem. The DLRs headshunt already runs half way to Moorgate.

Fair enough

Would certainly help the Northern in that area and would improve access from North London to the Docklands. I'm sold! ;D