Station Starters at Westminster

[TMBA]

I noticed the newly placed station starters today at Westminster Eastbound and also Westbound, couldn't really miss them they are right in your face, I wonder how long before S.P.A.Ds start occurring?

[Deleted]

tmba said:

I noticed the newly placed station starters today at Westminster Eastbound and also Westbound, couldn't really miss them they are right in your face, I wonder how long before S.P.A.Ds start occurring?

hhhmm I wonder. What was wrong with the previous signals, especially the westbound ??

[Admin Team]

According to the Traffic Circular it's to improve the sighting of them - SPAD reduction measure.

I went through Westminster several times today - I do think they're better, so they're in your view whilst observing the monitors too.

[trainopd78]

Just Ealing Common eastbound, and St. James's park eastbound to move.

[TMBA]

metapprentice said:

tmba said:

I noticed the newly placed station starters today at Westminster Eastbound and also Westbound, couldn't really miss them they are right in your face, I wonder how long before S.P.A.Ds start occurring?

hhhmm I wonder. What was wrong with the previous signals, especially the westbound ??

Too easy to S.P.A.D because your looking at the platform and not paying attention to the starters.

[Deleted]

trainopd78 said:

Just Ealing Common eastbound, and St. James's park eastbound to move.

How will they move Ealing Common's starter? Will they do what they did at Putney Bridge and mount a ground-level co-acting aspect, at eye level with the shunt disc?

[TMBA]

theonekea said:

trainopd78 said:

Just Ealing Common eastbound, and St. James's park eastbound to move.

How will they move Ealing Common's starter? Will they do what they did at Putney Bridge and mount a ground-level co-acting aspect, at eye level with the shunt disc?

Or they could fix a repeating aspect in the platform monitors like at Fulham Broadway eastbound that way you're looking at the monitors and the stick at the same time.
Powers that be will know whats best - of course, they never ask us drivers do they?, you know the people that do the job all the time!

[Deleted]

tmba said:

Too easy to S.P.A.D because your looking at the platform and not paying attention to the starters.

True, as They are OK when you are coming down the platform, but not when you have stopped.

If they are "easier" thats a good thing then!

[Colin]

I'm on annual leave at the mo, but looking forward to seeing these new positions. IMHO all starters should be next to the monitors, though viewable for non stopping trains as well. As TMBA say's, just a humble drivers opinion.

[Deleted]

I also think the new positions of these signals is better, although I never had any problems with the old positions really!
As T/OpD78 says, the main ones are Ealing Common and St James's Park eastbound starters, where you have to duck and dive to see the signals if you're stopped at the monitors!

[Deleted]

West Ken eastbound is rubbish as well, although I've never seen it on whilst in the platform.

[Deleted]

jim said:

West Ken eastbound is rubbish as well, although I've never seen it on whilst in the platform.

You must have been asleep, I was with you one day when it was on, al be it very briefly on!

[TMBA]

Its the same old story unfortunately, they only seem to do a select few like Westminster and eventually Ealing Common, well what about East Ham West, St James east & west, Temple east, Blackfriairs, Mansion house & Monument etc to name but a few.
Places of importance I thought would have come first IE S.P.A.D. locations would be nice, & what about FC1 at Plaistow? how long before you either get hit by a C2C or eaten by the vegetation.

[trainopd78]

FC1 is going to be linked to the previos auto, so that if FC1 stays on, then the previous signal will stay on too, magically giving us an all important repeater and a more viewable stop aspect too. Not sure when this will take place, but I was told of the propsed change a while ago.

[TMBA]

trainopd78 said:

FC1 is going to be linked to the previos auto, so that if FC1 stays on, then the previous signal will stay on too, magically giving us an all important repeater and a more viewable stop aspect too. Not sure when this will take place, but I was told of the propsed change a while ago.

Thanks Trainopd that will obviously help and are they gonna put the telephone up higher as well?

[Deleted]

trainopd78 said:

FC1 is going to be linked to the previos auto, so that if FC1 stays on, then the previous signal will stay on too, magically giving us an all important repeater and a more viewable stop aspect too. Not sure when this will take place, but I was told of the propsed change a while ago.

Er......

That's not something I've heard of before - has this been done in LT signalling in the past, or this is a "new" invention?

[q8]

Well TOK I can tell you that years ago the last two home signals on the bank westbound at Bow Road always cleared together. Observations from and eastbound 'O' stock told me that they also went danger together as well. There were aslo some signals you never saw at red as a driver. these are now gone but one which comes to mind was the advance starter at Embankment eastbound. It would clear as the previous train stopped in Temple platform about 5 seconds after Embankment starter cleared.

At some locations although the separate signals returned to danger together they cleared in sequence.. The vagaries of LUL signalling are many and varied. I remember one place where the second home signal went to danger before the first did. Can't recall where that was though. Somewhere at the east on of the DR.

[Deleted]

We also have a dodgy example where a signal in advance clears before the one you're standing at! This is WM400 and WM4 between Hanger Lane and Ealing Common Eastbound. Almost caught me out a few times when I've been on my way to stable, saw WM4 clear and go to wind up, only to find WM400 is still at danger!
Not quite sure why it happens this way, but it's the only example I can think of on the line!

[Deleted]

q8 said:

. I remember one place where the second home signal went to danger before the first did. Can't recall where that was though. Somewhere at the east on of the DR.

At Ealing Common eastbound the home signals clear like that, with the outer home clearing a second after the inner.


EDIT - It looks like Alan just beat me here

[trainopd78]

Sorry, there was no mention of the SPT at FC1.

There are 2 other locations where a signal to the rear has been linked to other signals. these are between Upney and Becontree E/B and between Dagenham East and Elm park E/B. The previous auto is linked to the homes, to enable stopping distance to be given. This was because it was felt the overlap was too short on the outer home. What happens now is that once the train in front leaves Becontree (or Elm Pk) all the homes and the auto signal before the homes will virtually clear together giving the train one hell of a clear run into the platform.

[Deleted]

trainopd78 said:

giving the train one hell of a clear run into the platform.

The hell of a clear run isn't a problem, it's the hell of a wait for them to clear that's a pain! ;D

[Deleted]

trainopd78 said:

FC1 is going to be linked to the previos auto, so that if FC1 stays on, then the previous signal will stay on too, magically giving us an all important repeater and a more viewable stop aspect too. Not sure when this will take place, but I was told of the propsed change a while ago.

I don't understand why they don't just put FC1 on a bit shorter post so it isn't obscured by the previous two signals. Upton Park westbound has three home signals in a similar arrangement to Plaistow and the third one is easy to see because it's lower.

[TMBA]

Ok so be honest - How many of you like me look at the new starters at Westminster be it East or West take on the aspect then look at the old signal post down on the track as if the signal is still there!
Whats that all about?
Your answers please just to see if it ain't just me

[Chris M]

Its probably because for the last x thousands times you've departed the station youve needed to look there and so it will be a matter of habit by now.

[Deleted]

tmba said:

Ok so be honest - How many of you like me look at the new starters at Westminster be it East or West take on the aspect then look at the old signal post down on the track as if the signal is still there!
Whats that all about?
Your answers please just to see if it ain't just me

Yes, I've done that as well!

One thing I noticed on the westbound is that the signal is quite a long way past the trainstop! I can't think of any other location where this is the case. Could you actually get tripped before passing the signal?

[TMBA]

Thanks Guys I thought it was just me.