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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2011 15:09:27 GMT
Hi just wondered if any of you can help me out with what happened on my oyster today (not for the first time but different journey.
I went from my local station hatton x to chiswick park then went to Sainsburys then home again chiswick park to hatton cross.when I got back to hatton x it wouldn't let me out of the barrier so the man behind the window let me out and I asked him what happened and he printed my statement and said I was on -55p which made no sense as when I started I had over £3 and and it should have been £1.40 each way.
This is when he looked and it had come up with the uncompleted pre pay entry at chiswick park.he adjusted it to what it should have been but didn't know why it happened so I wondered if any of you could shed any light.below is the info from my usage statement
17/04 13.30 add pre pay hatton x £3.00
17/04 14:15 hatton x - chiswick park £0.00
17/04 14:41 uncompleted pre pay entry chiswick Park £3.00
17/04 15.06 rejected exit (code 36) hatton x £0.00
Current balance -£0.55
Hopefully someone can make this clearer than the confused looking guy behind the window
Thanks
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2011 15:15:33 GMT
Ive been confused by my Oyster lately too. Yesterday when I went to Willesden Junction to board a railtour to York I forgot to touch out there, so when I got back to Willesden in the evening I was expecting me to be fined via the Oyster and have no money! Surprisingly when I touched out so I could finally 'complete' my first journey, it only charged me the normal rate.
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Post by trc666 on Apr 17, 2011 17:37:53 GMT
I just had something daft happen to me today too regarding Oyster - I had £1.80 on my card, and it was rejected for 'not enough money' on a 271 bus despite the fare being £1.30 :/
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Apr 17, 2011 18:39:05 GMT
I am very fortunate in rarely having problems with my Oyster - if you don't let the balance go below £5....
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2011 18:54:03 GMT
I've never had a problem before with my oyster.
Well, one incomplete journey from Bond St. at some point; have no idea how such occured. It was during the time when I had a week 1-6 travelcard loaded too. *scratches head*
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Post by bicbasher on Apr 17, 2011 21:44:32 GMT
I've never had a problem before with my oyster. Well, one incomplete journey from Bond St. at some point; have no idea how such occured. It was during the time when I had a week 1-6 travelcard loaded too. *scratches head* A few years back I had a similar problem at Bond Street. Touched in with no probs, got to Vauxhall and found I had an incomplete journey this was despite having more than enough PAYG credit. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2011 23:04:41 GMT
A fairly common source of incomplete journeys, when the user has used their card correctly come from OSI's - or Out of Station Interchange.
These can be temporary say due to engineering works as well as the permanent ones.
I believe that this is what has happened with the above. The touch out/ in was made in a releative short period of time and I'm guessing within a time limit set by an OSI.
Not sure why Chiswick Park has an OSI - if I'm correct - it is reported online that one may exist between Chiswick Park & Gunnersbury. Additionally there was engineering work taking place over the weekend on the Overground which may have explained the OSI.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2011 11:06:04 GMT
Thanks stig if that's correct then basically I was too quick doing my shopping right? Glad to see it's not just me this happens too
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2011 14:48:33 GMT
It strikes me that reveals two problems:
1) A lack of information as to what OSIs exist - one would expect a list of them (both temporary and permanent) to be readily available to all who need to know - including passengers - but it seems to treated more as a secret to catch people out.
2) That the system is sensitive as to whether a touch out/in is an OSI or represents an end of one journey and start of another, but cannot distinguish them - which means it is not fit for purpose.
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Post by Chris M on Apr 18, 2011 15:23:13 GMT
I think the simplest thing to do would be to ensure that touching out and then back in again at the same station always started a new journey, regardless of interval or OSIs or anything. Exiting one station and then starting a new journey from it is not an interchange. Even when you are continuing (e.g. Liverpool Street NR to Liverpool Street LU) you don't tap out and then in again at the same gateline.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2011 17:06:07 GMT
That will resolve some, but not all problems: while a same station/barrier exit/entry can be defined as not an interchange, entry at the other half of an OSI may or may not be (what happens with Stratford-Liverpool St LU/5 mins business/NR-Stratford?).
If there is a possible journey, sooner or later someone will make it; and then another - and no matter how strange they may seem, Oyster should be able to cope...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2011 17:15:16 GMT
its a crazy system that I think needs looking at finishing and starting at the same gateline is surely never going to be an interchange and surley oyster is smart enough to be able to work this out if set properly,Incidently has anyone got a logical reason to change my mind why its set up to count in and out of the same gateline as an osi?
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Post by Chris M on Apr 18, 2011 17:32:40 GMT
That will resolve some, but not all problems: while a same station/barrier exit/entry can be defined as not an interchange, entry at the other half of an OSI may or may not be (what happens with Stratford-Liverpool St LU/5 mins business/NR-Stratford?). You'll never be able to counter all the possible permeutations, but you can surely do better than currently. In your example, X to X via Y1 and Y2, is clearly two journeys. Equally X to Z via Y1 and Y2 where Z is between X and Y and the latter is not a logical via point. In theory it will require examining all possible combinations, but with some simple algorithms only a sub-set will need humans looking at them. For example, Leyton to Leytonstone via Liverpool Street has got to be two journeys. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2011 18:18:39 GMT
I'm actually keeping up with this discussion, as I have lost quite a lot of money over time with phantom transactions on my Oyster card, and reading this discussion many of mine seem to be at stations you call OSI, where on a continuing journey you can touch out and then touch in again.
I wrote here previously of one where I came from Sloane Square, touched out at Tower Hill Underground station (you have to touch out, you can't get out otherwise), and then touched in a couple of minutes later at Tower Gateway, which it, completely unknown to me, recorded as touching out from the first journey, and then when I touched out at Beckton it recorded me as touching in for a second journey, and thereafter fined me for an incomplete jouney.
Another time, I went from City Airport all the way to Hammersmith to pick some keys, didn't even exit the station but came all the way back to Beckton, where I touched out, and got charged for two incomplete journeys, because I had been so long. OK, that's how it works, two weeks later I had to do exactly the same again, this time I came out at Hammersmith, and straight back in again, STILL got charged for an incomplete journey, which I never understood.
I can recall in the early days of my Oyster card you didn't get charged this fine for items not logically completed, that approach came later, along with patronising and sneering posters that make out it is only fare dodgers who get into this situation. Which is patently untrue.
By the way, if you live on the DLR there are no machines anywhere at any of the stations that can show your Oyster history, despite them buying all new ticket machines one or two years ago. So you may never know.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Apr 18, 2011 18:25:04 GMT
its a crazy system that I think needs looking at finishing and starting at the same gateline is surely never going to be an interchange Quite possible at London Bridge (e.g Greenwich to East Croydon) or Victoria (Herne Hill to Clapham Junction), where you may want to change via the concourse. Possibly Amersham to West Ruislip via Marylebone? Or Stratford to London Fields via Liverpool Street (NR throughout) |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2011 20:33:14 GMT
It strikes me that reveals two problems: 1) A lack of information as to what OSIs exist - one would expect a list of them (both temporary and permanent) to be readily available to all who need to know - including passengers - but it seems to treated more as a secret to catch people out. Have a look at this. |
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Post by Chris M on Apr 18, 2011 21:59:46 GMT
I've had several automatic refunds applied due to "operational issues" at Tower Gateway since late September. However they still haven't got it through to the system that I'm no longer living in Debden, so it's wait the week or so for the pickup to fail and then it gives me the option to choose my preferred location. Despite selecting Cyprus every time it still defaults to Debden! I've tried contacting the help desk by email, but by the time they reply I've already done the above and picked it up at Cyprus - they apparently can't change the location when a refund isn't due...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2011 22:55:50 GMT
It strikes me that reveals two problems: 1) A lack of information as to what OSIs exist - one would expect a list of them (both temporary and permanent) to be readily available to all who need to know - including passengers - but it seems to treated more as a secret to catch people out. Have a look at this. Yes, there are such lists, but apart from the fact that it's now three months out of date, I would scarcely regard something on an unofficial site, of responses to FoI requests, totally unrelated to Oyster, TfL or NR, as being 'readily available'. Can the staff where I start my journey tell me if the osi on my proposed journey is on the list (and provided for) or not? |
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