Joined: Mar 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 2,058 Location: Uxbridge(ish)
Re: 72TS to Ealing Common « Result #3 Today at 1:14pm »
Not at all unusual to see them in Ealing Common.
Probably there for brake testing on the test track; from time to time most stocks appear in the Common; in fact I can't think of a current stock I've not seen in there.
Train seemed in perfect working order when I photted it at Rayners Lane yesterday.
As a return path (for some or all of the train anyway) is also booked for next week, I can only assume it is for some kind of modification or upgrade not possible at Stonebridge Park OR to establish and prove the capability of the run for future use?
Re: London Underground Reliability « Result #7 Today at 11:40am »
I have used the Underground for more years than most here, and I have probably used more Metro systems in various countries around the world than many as well.
I find the London reliability is on a long-term downwards spiral, the pace of which is increasing, and can pick out a number of items :
1. When a problem does occur, it seems to take infinitely longer to correct and restore the service than formerly. My most used system is the DLR. Operation used to be perfect, in recent years it has gone down the drain. I find that more than 10% of the trips I have made have had to be abandoned to another means, most recently leaving the train at my starting point, walking back home, getting the car out, and driving to my destination. I know that any issues on the DLR now take for ever to sort out.
2. Gross over-reaction to individual issues. One person stayed in a Central train being reversed at Bank, and the whole arrangement of tip-outs was changed for the worse, for all time. One manual operation of a DLR train leads to a low-speed sideswipe and new regulations make DLR manual driving effectively unusable nowadays.
3. Concentration on "targets" leads to the reported figures being bent to achieve the target. But complacency then sets in that things are perfect. If the target is negotiated down to say 90%, and achieved, there is a feeling that you don't need to bother any more beyond that figure.
4. Too simplistic targets. The way that running times have been eased out to hit the reliability target is one such. The target should be 99% reliability but at each station, weighted by passenger numbers, not just at the end, AND no increase in running time, AND no easing out of service intervals, etc. This is what other systems measure and achieve. Their targets run to many pages, not just simplistic one-liners.
5. Management nowadays who appear to be less capable and less competent than previously, and get absorbed in all the peripheral frippery like obscure Health & Safety nonsenses, or sending all their staff on diversity training yet again, rather than actually running the system. Management who did not know one end of a train from the other used to be unknown. Nowadays they are an increasing trend.
6. Pretending that line closures at weekends are somehow exempt from service reliability statistics. They prevent passengers travelling, they should be included in the reliability figures.
7. Open fraud of the statistics, pretending there is a Good Service when there is patently not. Because nobody checks up on this.
Re: Wimbledon road disruption « Result #9 Today at 11:07am »
I am slightly surprised that there has been no reference to yesterday's problems, which were caused (so us customers passengers were told) by repeated signal failures at East Putney - whether one signal failed twice or two different ones I don't know.
Obviously that's out of your hands but what was a little odd was a D stock arriving at Putney Bridge and the driver telling passengers it would be held there for "35 to 65 minutes" - why not "half an hour to an hour or so"?
LU hasn't asked for Circle line to be added to the Hammersmith message on D78 stock when the ELL (London Overground actually) update at Whitechapel is done. I think this is for the good resons outlined by other posts here. Lots of Circle line destinations that are not best reached by changing off an EB District at Hammersmith.
Colin Administrator The Man to ask about past threads! member is offline
Come on you Hammers!!
Joined: Feb 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 6,845 Location: In my cab !!
Re: Hammersmith « Result #17 Today at 2:45am »
Chris is right though - there's no real benefit gain by announcing the Circle interchange at Hammersmith.
As stated, the H&C covers the same stations eastbound, and if you wanted Bayswater, Notting Hill Gate or High Street Kensington, you would change at Earls Court.
If you wanted stations between Gloucester Road & Tower Hill, you'd simply stay on or change to the District line.
So whilst the Circle interchange is correctly shown on the maps, the actual importance of the interchange facility is very low in reality.
Colin Administrator The Man to ask about past threads! member is offline
Come on you Hammers!!
Joined: Feb 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 6,845 Location: In my cab !!
Re: proposed re-signalling « Result #18 Today at 2:36am »
It's a case of you-wouldn't-recognise-the-railway-as-you-knew-it today.
Absolutely everything is done differently now, with a different rule book, different legislation (or work Law if you like) and a completely different system of job planning/implementation. PPP is not LT in any way shape or form.
I'm no contractor - I'm just a driver - but even I can tell you that everything you've said in this thread is now considered historic. It's just not done like that any more.
Joined: Aug 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 5,676 Location: Somerset
Re: London Underground Reliability « Result #20 Today at 2:00am »
I wouldn't think LU would pay for journeys that were less than 15 minutes longer than the scheduled journey time. The journey planner should enable us mere mortals to find out what that is.
This is based on my experience of a Debden - Chorleywood journey taking just 1 minute over 2 hours (in the days when this was the fixed time limit for all PAYG journeys) despite the journey planner predicting I should have about 10-15 minutes to spare (iirc). As there were no delays or problems reported at the time I travelled, I was refused a refund. even though I was delayed on every leg of my journey. I've ranted about this elsewhere on this forum previously, so I shall refrain from doing so again.
24.05.82 - Slip points east of Acton Town from eastbound 'local' (District) platform 4 to east sidings replaced by separate new crossovers Nos.66 and 67.
Hope this helps.
As a matter of interest for our historians, it used to be possible to get from platform No.2 (westbound 'fast' Piccadilly) direct to the eastbound 'fast' (Piccadilly) via one of the sidings. This move was abolished 19.07.64, being one of the moves to reduce operational flexibility of the 1950s and 1960s. I have seen a colour a photo of L30 or L31 hauling a freight train ex-Acton Works through this move, just as it reaches the eastbound Piccadilly Line.
Yep Acton Town points were all part of my signal maintenance area and 66, 67 separate sets as stated. There is to this day a single slip (layout wise) on the westbound but it is wired and operated as the two A ends of 41 and 42 points.
I believe the abolished move to which you refer was via 21 siding. I presume that the single slip became 41A & 42A at the same time that the west-east crossover move was abolished. Somewhere I think I may have an aerial photo of the site showing the layout before the crossover was abolished.
I have to comment though that each one of those dates extends over a 3-4 year period.
Is that much different to todays Jubilee and tomorrows Northern line projects ?
-- Nick
I think the major difference is in terms of how long the railway was unavailable for passenger use. Most of the commissionings associated with those projects took place in Engineering Hours (no effect) or at worst a single Sunday closure, which is a far cry from what happens today.
I have seen a copy of the commissioning programme for (IIRC) Finsbury Park to Arsenal auto resignalling in 1981 - one Saturday night. I doubt anyone could do that today.
You'll find that most changeovers in the 1970s were one nighters regardless of the number of disciplines and amount of work involved. It was all about planning and the planning was done at all levels right down to the gangs doing the actual work. We usually had the Friday night to look around the job and know our roles and repsonsibilities and were expected to perform on the Saturday regardless of weather etc. Many changeovers were multisite affairs done on a single night, Earls Ct-West Brompton- Fulham Broadway, Holborn-Chancery Lane-St Pauls are examples I have mentioned before. Leyton was the changeover and recovery of the old cabin kit in a single shift, Wood Green stage 1 included recovering the lever frame and putting it on a train during the changeover as I recall, the whole of Whitechapel depot worked on that shift. St. John's Wood-Baker Street changeover was worked on by Baker St., Earls Ct, Wembley park and Whitechapel signal new works, Hyde Pk Cnr & Down street was an Earls Ct job with changeover volunteers from all new works depots and on the night there was a great deal of recovery involved. I recall Cockfosters stage 1 as being a rotten night pouring with rain, I was a volunteer, as I lived in North london, on a 12 hour night shift for that job working mostly on a plate rack outside the cabin, the outside response teams got drenched but at least I was able to have some protection from the elements in the form of brattice sheeting. Aldgate I recall as a long night and my own team of comms staff changed over kit all the way from Aldgate to King's Cross. I think the last of the big changeovers that I worked on was Embankment-Elephant & castle.
Actually thinking about it Rayners Lane-Uxbridge was another big one, I recall having a hired in personal vehicle for the weekend on that job as I had responsibilities at both ends of the changeover!
Just what is so different today? Are the planners less expert? Are responsibilities taken out of the hands of those actually doing the work? Is it just a case of too much red tape?
Personally I'm not in a position to say, but I was just thinking about the claims that I've put in for delayed journeys of 15 minutes or over in the last 4 years, when I've commuted from St James's Park to Turnham Green and back Monday to Friday.
The first year I did this I remember putting in approximately 20 claims: not far off equivalent at £4 a go to a month's free travel. I think in the last year, I may have put in 2. Not very scientific, but it may be indicative how the District Line's improved reliability in recent years. Or not, I don't know!
At present it is possible that if nothing is going wrong and your train remains spot on time you can be held for over 15 minutes (say 4 at Earl's Court, 4 at Hammersmith and 9 at Acton Town (often having to be left on the homes) on the District for instance). Now in your mind that's 15 time sat around. Would you put a claim in? And would LU pay it?
Thanks for this update. Does this mean the "baloon" mosaics are going as well?
I think it will be a good thing for new tiling, especially the vault of the SB Victoria Line (former SB GN&C), which has looked very shabby for some time.
I am sure the MIP lift scheme for this station has now been deferred, or even cancelled, like many others.
I wonder if the powers that be will put up the right signage for the Piccadilly Line, which should be eastbound and westbound and not north- and southbound.
It looks like the balloons are staying, along with the duelling pistols on the Victoria line platforms - only the grey tiles have been removed.
The MIP lift scheme is indeed off the agenda at the moment - a bit of a shame, considering the heavy use of the station and the revenue improvement that I guess would come from gating the station.
Joined: Feb 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 468 Location: West London
Re: Finsbury Park « Result #33 Yesterday at 10:21pm »
Thanks for this update. Does this mean the "baloon" mosaics are going as well?
I think it will be a good thing for new tiling, especially the vault of the SB Victoria Line (former SB GN&C), which has looked very shabby for some time.
I am sure the MIP lift scheme for this station has now been deferred, or even cancelled, like many others.
I wonder if the powers that be will put up the right signage for the Piccadilly Line, which should be eastbound and westbound and not north- and southbound.
Joined: Mar 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 4,042 Location: Colonia Domitiana Lindensium
Re: London Underground Reliability « Result #34 Yesterday at 10:14pm »
Another way of looking at it, is that a good 3,000,000 people use the system a day, so when you break it down to delays/moans per passenger I'd say it was a decent record of satisfaction.
I know we haven't quite got that many members here, but look at the complaints level...... I'd say we are looking at a damn fine service.
Re: What is wrong with some people? « Result #35 Yesterday at 10:13pm »
Unfortunately, by the time some of these losers are done "training" their dogs, the dog is so set in that manner of behaviour that the only thing that can be done is to euthanise it. Which is a darn shame.
The dog in question this time looked like a real softie... until he started baiting it.
Re: Berlin Tube Map « Result #36 Yesterday at 10:10pm »
Gruß und willkommen Felix! Ihre Karte ist sehr gut
(And your English is very good as well, much better than my basic German!)
The M-Bahn would be translated into English literally as Magnetic Railway, although the term "Maglev" is generally used - we had a short line in the UK between the railway station and the airport terminal in Birmingham for around 20-25 years.
The Berlin M-Bahn seemed to be a colossal waste of money in the end - it had no real transport purpose, running through the wasteland alongside the East-West border at Potsdamer Platz, and it was almost inevitable that it would have to be destroyed if Potsdamer Platz was to be rebuilt and line U2 reopened.
Incidentally, with the opening of line U55 between the Hauptbahnhof and Brandenburger Tor there are three more ghost platforms and a ghost track - U55 is operated as a single track shuttle service (with one train craned in through a hole in the ground) and no signalling, leaving a spare platform at the termini and the intermediate station of Bundestag. The plan is that this stub will be connected to the U5 at Alexanderplatz in the future, as shown on the map, but for now it is rather like a slightly longer Aldwych shuttle
Joined: Aug 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 5,676 Location: Somerset
Re: 'S' Stock Testing Commences « Result #40 Yesterday at 9:18pm »
What are the chevrons in this context? They're obviously not the stopping markers by platform headwalls if you have to remove posi shoes to get at them!
As some of us may have noticed, quite a few tiles on all platforms at Finsbury Park have been stripped off; which is an obvious sign of imminent refurbishment. The northbound Piccadilly line platform has seen some swift progress with roughly less than a third of the platform re-tiled already. From what I can see, the new tiles consist of white and green; plus it's supposedly similar to the style seen at the recently refurbished Green Park. There's not much progress on the Victoria line platforms as of yet.
Joined: May 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 196 Location: Northern Heights
Re: What am I missing no. 1: City Thameslink « Result #44 Yesterday at 8:53pm »
I think one is actually planned on the proposed extension (actually to Victoria), as opposed to Aldwych/Temple and (if it goes close enough) Green Park which are not.
Joined: May 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 196 Location: Northern Heights
Re: How much would it cost to...? « Result #45 Yesterday at 8:48pm »
Common sense dictates new lines/underground stations/interchanges etc can cost a lot of money and that money coming in from passenger receipts will always be limited. Virtually no schemes will ever be outright profitable, so they are judged on cost-benefit, with things like money saved in the economy, relief for other lines or economic growth caused by the new project taken into account, and some public service consideration too. In some examples businesses and developers can cough up contributions to construction based on benefit they might receive. This will bring the cost to the tax-payer down and can allow for a lower benefit outside of the contributor.
Benefit can be quite substantial though, and costs can be less if a scheme incorporates significant existing infrastructure. Money has to be available, and this often means small amounts of money for things like London Overground and large sums for (apparently) genuinely beneficial projects like Crossrail.
A crack was found, (not on the trucks but more equipment related, i will leave it there ) plus more problems with the chevrons, ( they are moving too much - a problem found and known about from the new Vic line trains ) which lead to a entire team rushing to Neasden to pack them out, and the removal of the posi shoe gear to reach them.
Joined: Aug 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 5,676 Location: Somerset
Re: daily quiz - your photos wanted « Result #48 Yesterday at 8:09pm »
Thank you to the three members who helped me out recently. As I realised that my previous list of wants was out of date, here is the current version.
Generally, I would particularly like photographs from:
locations east of zone Stations with "Acton" in the name (except Acton Central) Stations on the Goblin and DLR Depots Disused stations, including the Epping-Ongar branch
More specifically, I have between 0 and 3 photos of each of the following stations, and so they form my most wanted list: Barking, Bethnal Green, Blackfriars, Borough, Boston Manor Canary Wharf DLR, Chancery Lane, Clapham North, Cockfosters, Crouch Hill Dagenham East, Dalston Kingsland, Down Street East Acton, East Ham Fairlop Hackney Wick, Harlesden, Harringay Green Lanes, Hendon Central, Holland Park, Holloway Road, Hornchurch Island Gardens Kensal Rise, Kentish Town, Kingsbury Leicester Square Mansion House, Moor Park New-build ELL stations, NLL Woolwich Arsenal branch stations Old Street Parsons Green, Plaistow, Poplar, Putney Bridge Queensbury Ravenscourt Park, Redbridge, Royal Albert, Royal Victoria Shadwell East London Line, Shepherd's Bush Market, Shoreditch (closed), South Acton, South Ealing, South Tottenham, St John's Wood, Stamford Brook, Stations east of Epping Totteridge and Whetstone Upney Walthamstow Queens Road, West Acton, West Brompton, West Kensington, Wimbledon Park
As I have 13 or more pictures of all of the following stations, I'd prefer only to receive any particularly good or very different views of these locations:
Acton Central, Aldgate, Arnos Grove Baker Street, Barkingside, Brent Cross Chesham, Chigwell, Chorleywood, Colindale Earl's Court, Edgware Road (Circle) Farringdon Gloucester Road, Golders Green, Goldhawk Road Hampstead, Hanger Lane, Headstone Lane, Highbury and Islington, Hounslow West Ickenham Kilburn High Road, Kings Cross St Pancras Latimer Road, London City Airport Maida Vale North Ealing Park Royal Shepherd's Bush (Central Line) Tooting Broadway, Turnpike Lane Victoria Watford Met, Willesden Junction, Wood Lane
If a station is not on either list then I'll take to photos of them but you needn't make a special journey to take photos of them just for the quiz (unless you want to!).
Re: London Underground Reliability « Result #49 Yesterday at 7:58pm »
i think it's also worth considering the increase in passenger journeys - i.e. the number of passengers carried by LU year on year. Bearing this in mind, you see that reliability appears to have improved even under hightened demand - not bad really.
Joined: Jan 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 112 Location: Southwark
Re: What stations would you merge? « Result #50 Yesterday at 7:38pm »
Would merge Tower Hill, Tower Gateway and Fenchurch St into once complex. Euston and Euston Sq. City Thameslink and St Paul's via Travellator. As mentioned before, the two Edgeware Road Station would be good candidates.
Joined: Feb 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 468 Location: West London
Re: Acton Town East Sidings access? « Result #51 Yesterday at 7:36pm »
My notes state the following:
24.05.82 - Slip points east of Acton Town from eastbound 'local' (District) platform 4 to east sidings replaced by separate new crossovers Nos.66 and 67.
Hope this helps.
As a matter of interest for our historians, it used to be possible to get from platform No.2 (westbound 'fast' Piccadilly) direct to the eastbound 'fast' (Piccadilly) via one of the sidings. This move was abolished 19.07.64, being one of the moves to reduce operational flexibility of the 1950s and 1960s. I have seen a colour a photo of L30 or L31 hauling a freight train ex-Acton Works through this move, just as it reaches the eastbound Piccadilly Line.
Joined: Mar 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 4,042 Location: Colonia Domitiana Lindensium
Re: London Underground Reliability « Result #53 Yesterday at 7:09pm »
The system can only operate as conditions allow, and perhaps in that respect and the fact that it was drummed into me at an early age, I don't bother about it, I know London well enough to find an alternative if the chips are down.
But generally, I've never really had any problems in all the years I have used the system, aside from the queues for tickets if I'm daft enough to try and buy one in peak time.
Slightly OT, but I'm using my time as a bus driver as a comparison, when people moaned that the bus was running late despite being stuck in a complete jam. I mean, what exactly am I supposed to do? Fly it over the queue? So a train is stuck in a tunnel on LU, what exactly is the one behind it going to do? Drill a new tunnel out and divert?
In short, I can't fault LU service wise and price wise, it's better than anywhere else I know in The UK and cheaper too.
Virtual District Line construction engineer and arborist
Joined: Mar 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 335 Location: New Hampshire USA
Acton Town East Sidings access? « Result #54 Yesterday at 7:09pm »
I had long believed that the access from the EB slow and fast running lines to the east sidings (23/22/21) was via a double-slip. I believed the turnout off the slow crossed over the fast (diamond X) with slips to provide (a) slow to fast and (b) fast to sidings. However, re-checking my most recent diagram I see two distinct points. 67a/b provides a path from slow to fast, then 66a/b provides the path from fast to the siding entry. I do understand the possible paths and the related signaling, however...
Is this a double-slip or two distinct points? Clearly either would work as regards providing required paths, and the former might take less longitudinal space if that were an issue. My interest is in achieving accurate simulation, as you might expect Any and all info greatly appreciated!
Joined: Jun 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 1,810 Location: the fishbowl on the Jubilee
Re: What is wrong with some people? « Result #55 Yesterday at 6:57pm »
When they talk about putting down the dogs they're looking at the wrong target,some of the moronic owners are prime candidates for a lethal injection!!
Joined: Jan 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 283 Location: Westminster
Re: London Underground Reliability « Result #57 Yesterday at 5:58pm »
Personally I'm not in a position to say, but I was just thinking about the claims that I've put in for delayed journeys of 15 minutes or over in the last 4 years, when I've commuted from St James's Park to Turnham Green and back Monday to Friday.
The first year I did this I remember putting in approximately 20 claims: not far off equivalent at £4 a go to a month's free travel. I think in the last year, I may have put in 2. Not very scientific, but it may be indicative how the District Line's improved reliability in recent years. Or not, I don't know!
Re: London Underground Reliability « Result #58 Yesterday at 5:58pm »
Working on a line that has recently seen its reliability improve more than 10-fold on an average day, then I'm inclined to say we are as good if not better than other systems.
The trouble is, as is evident from the changes we have made on the Circle, improving reliability and the changes made to do this, isn't always going to go down well with everyone.
The base infrastructure only needs improving where it fails to meet it's modern day purpose. So if a Victorian entrance to a station causes a bottle-neck or if a platform is too short/narrow to cope with present day demand, then we need to look at changing it. Otherwise, the core system serves its purpose.
Now improving the network to be better than this is a whole different league. At the top end you could propose a system-wide rebuild, with most original assets renewed or replaced, but this simply won't happen in our life-times.
Can it be confirmed, please, that platform 1 is still closed today and trains are stopping normally in 3 and 4.
Yes - and it will stay that way for at least this week.
And as I was the controller who would have allowed the withdrawal of one possession and the introduction of another, I should know
From looking on the CCTV, platform 1 is near completion (it was being swept, mopped and polished last night ) and I think the only thing holding things up now is installation of platform end barriers and the official "signing off" of the works.
There have been the usual rumours kicking around. Like the classic "Trains can't use it as the platform has been built wrong" but these, as far as I know, are a figment of someone's imagination. If it was wrong, then why they spent time putting some current rail back would seem a very silly move if they've got to start all over again.
Joined: Jan 2010 Gender: Male Posts: 10 Location: Berlin
Re: Berlin Tube Map « Result #61 Yesterday at 5:27pm »
Yes, but curiously the U9 track is the unused one at Schloßstr. and Rathaus Steglitz, because the U9 uses the intended U10 track (it switches from its track to the U10 track between Walther-Schreiber-Platz ans Schloßstr.) because the U9 Platforms hadn't been finished yet at the Opening of U9 in 1976 but in 1984, when the Suburban Trains was taken over by BVG and could be tunneld beneath...
Joined: Feb 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 468 Location: West London
Re: Berlin Tube Map « Result #62 Yesterday at 5:05pm »
Have been and photographed Rathaus Steglitz and Potsdamer Platz, the latter when it was opened up as an exhibition displaying plastic items - the track bed was full of empty plastic bottles and the like.
The unused platforms of Schloßstraße (U10) and Jungfernheide(U5) can be seen publicly but behind floor-to-ceiling metal grilles. The track is in place at Schloßstraße but has no current rail.
London Underground Reliability « Result #64 Yesterday at 4:20pm »
I don't know is this the right questions to ask in here so please re-direct me to another topic if i am at the wrong place.
Do you guys think that London Underground is reliable compare to other tube system in other countries? What do you think what they can improve without changing the whole infrastructure since it's from Victorian to 21st century?
Re: Hammersmith « Result #68 Yesterday at 2:52pm »
While I partially agree with you, if it's shown as an interchange on the map in the carriage, then announcing it makes sense.
EG: Met/Circle/H&C line all interchange between Baker Street and Liverpool Street, but only certain stations announce this, when it's shown on the in-car diagrams.
Joined: Aug 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 5,676 Location: Somerset
Re: Hammersmith « Result #69 Yesterday at 2:00pm »
I'm not sure that announcing the Circle Line at Hammersmith would be that helpful. The Hammersmith and City Line will get you everywhere the Circle Line would as far as Liverpool Street. Certainly when heading eastbound, if you are travelling to any Circle Line station not served by the H&C or District Line you're far better off changing at Earl's Court or Tower Hill.
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