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Post by Guest on Jun 10, 2009 6:38:44 GMT
Its possible to get a ticket from my station to "London Terminals". Its a bit more expensive than a ticket to Liverpool Street, and isn't marked with the Underground 'get across from one station to another' cross.
What does the ticket mean? Any London terminal?
Could I go Wivenhoe - Stratford - West Hampstead - Herne Hill - Victoria?
[Paddington and Marylebone boggle the mind a bit, but I can get to all the others]
I ask because, (1) obviously, sometimes the Underground is not an option, and (2) the ticket potentially becomes more interesting when you start thinking about break-of-journey rules.
[As a good example of ticket madness, I can buy a ticket to Underground Zone 1, but recently they put up the price, an overnight return to UZ1 is now much more expensive than to Liverpool Street. The solution? Get a ticket to Finsbury Park, and forget to complete your journey when you get to Kings Cross ...]
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Post by londonboy on Jun 10, 2009 7:14:57 GMT
Its possible to get a ticket from my station to "London Terminals". Its a bit more expensive than a ticket to Liverpool Street, and isn't marked with the Underground 'get across from one station to another' cross. What does the ticket mean? Any London terminal? Could I go Wivenhoe - Stratford - West Hampstead - Herne Hill - Victoria? [Paddington and Marylebone boggle the mind a bit, but I can get to all the others] I ask because, (1) obviously, sometimes the Underground is not an option, and (2) the ticket potentially becomes more interesting when you start thinking about break-of-journey rules. [As a good example of ticket madness, I can buy a ticket to Underground Zone 1, but recently they put up the price, an overnight return to UZ1 is now much more expensive than to Liverpool Street. The solution? Get a ticket to Finsbury Park, and forget to complete your journey when you get to Kings Cross ...] London Terminals means the ticket is valid to London where the train you get on Terminates as you quote Wivenhoe a ticket from Wivenhoe to London Terminals would only be valid as far as Liverpool Street for a National Rail ticket to be valid on the London Underground it needs to have a "+" symbol below the area marked route or the destination as U1 , U12 , U123 , U1234 or U1256 which is for one single journey on each part of the ticket. a lot of people seem to think that because the zones are printed on the ticket they are travelcards but they are not, a travelcard will have "ONE DAY TRAVELCARD" printed on the top orange band of the ticket. |
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Post by Guest on Jun 10, 2009 7:58:34 GMT
It's valid to any London Terminal that you can get to by a Permitted Route, which means you can normally only get to the obvious one(s). A check of the Routeing Guide a Wivenhoe-London ticket is valid only via Colchester and the main line to Liverpool Street. So it's no more flexible than the "Liverpool Street" ticket.
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Post by Guest on Jun 10, 2009 7:59:18 GMT
I'm not sure about this, because a ticket to Liverpool Street is quoted "Liverpool Street" on the ticket, as I said, "London Terminals" is distinct, and more expensive. This implies that it is for other stations too. If it is restricted, Fenchurch Street is the obvious permitted candidate, but are there any others?
My tickets to London from the Southern region were always sold as "London Terminals", but there you always had a choice.
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Post by Guest on Jun 10, 2009 9:28:38 GMT
The Routeing Guide - although it's the official document - doesn't necessarily match train companies' perceptions when they create tickets, or indeed what the journey planner says is allowed (the JP is meant to follow the RG exactly, but very clearly doesn't).
The journey planner thinks Fenchurch Street via Romford-Upmister is valid, which potentially means c2c get a miniscule portion of the London Terminals fare (despite it not being a permitted route in the Routeing Guide). The Liverpool Street ticket is probably a fiddle to ensure NXEA get 100% of the fare, or close to it.
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Post by Guest on Jun 10, 2009 11:37:23 GMT
I'm not sure about this, because a ticket to Liverpool Street is quoted "Liverpool Street" on the ticket, as I said, "London Terminals" is distinct, and more expensive. This implies that it is for other stations too. If it is restricted, Fenchurch Street is the obvious permitted candidate, but are there any others? Perhaps it's trying to do Fenchurch Street via Stratford and West Ham, riding the bit of the North London Line that isn't there any more. Or maybe it's trying to go direct from Stratford to Fenchurch Street (which IIRC has the slight snag of the train that does this running non-stop from Barking). |
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Post by hogspanker on Jun 10, 2009 13:53:34 GMT
All I know is that as a CSA at Paddington Underground I became sick and tired of people striding down from the Main Line station insisting that 'Pontywherever to London Terminals' meant they were entitled to a free Tube ride across town.
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Post by londonboy on Jun 10, 2009 14:35:51 GMT
All I know is that as a CSA at Paddington Underground I became sick and tired of people striding down from the Main Line station insisting that 'Pontywherever to London Terminals' meant they were entitled to a free Tube ride across town. I Used to get the same when i was rostered at Euston |
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Post by The Major on Jun 10, 2009 14:48:25 GMT
And me at Waterloo. All the time. However, we had quite a good get out clause in the shape of Waterloo East, so anyone wanting the West End was told they could go into Charing Cross. Always a good one. However there are a few variations.......London Terminals (no tube), London Terminals with a + (with tube), London U1, London Terminals issued to Zone U1, normally as a gate pass with those huge tickets which come in an envelope (can't remember their name). But basically, London Terminals tickets were a bain of my life, and have led to many many very dodgy situations on the barrier...........
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Post by Guest on Jun 10, 2009 15:32:12 GMT
I didn't think Charing Cross was a valid London Terminus for the Waterloo lines (except maybe Wimbledon)
Basingstoke, Winchester, Soton AP, Soton Central, Brockenhurst and Bournemouth have Paddington as an alternative London terminus, and Victoria is always an option via Clapham Junction (not sure if valid). IIRC that's it.
Is London Terminals on 'one' a hang over from the never-really-happened Fenchurch Street-Stratford shuttle? On c2c there's the Liverpool Street late night service.
What NR stations near London wouldn't get the option of terminal?
Vauxhall, Queenstown Road Battersea, Brixton, Queens Park, Wembley Stadium, the Sudburys, Northolt Park, Bethnal Green, London Fields, Cambridge Heath, Hackney Downs, Clapton, Rectory Road, Stamford Hill, St James St, Walthamstow Central, Wood Street, Highams Park, Chingford, West Ham, Limehouse. Any more? Baker Street, IIRC, counts for trains from Harrow-Aylesbury. I guess maybe the inner WCML is stuck with Euston, though would a change at Clapham Junction be allowed?
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Post by Guest on Jun 10, 2009 16:58:26 GMT
I didn't think Charing Cross was a valid London Terminus for the Waterloo lines (except maybe Wimbledon) Epsom. Except you're meant to ride the line via Sutton and then change at Clapham Junction and Waterloo, although that's practically unenforceable. Bizarrely, the other sensible route from Epsom to Charing Cross (via London Bridge) isn't valid either, although the chances of getting your ticket checked between London Bridge and Waterloo East are minimal. It is. It's on map WX, along with Waterloo. Bizarrely, one valid route from Cardiff Central to London is BD+MW+WX, which theoretically allows travel via Hereford, Shrewsbury, Wrexham, Shotton (change maps), Crewe, Stafford, Walsall, Birmingham, Didcot, Bath, Westbury (change maps), Salisbury, and Clapham Junction to Victoria. Funnily enough, I have no desire to try it, but it says something about the fitness for purpose of the Routeing Guide that something so manifestly unreasonable is permitted, whilst still not every reasonable route has made it in. Acton Main Line. And effectively most Western local stations, although many of them have the alternative of the weekly rail replacement bus from Ealing to Clapham for Waterloo. Strangely enough, you're not allowed to do Slough to Waterloo via Windsor. |
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Post by Guest on Jun 10, 2009 18:22:42 GMT
I didn't think Charing Cross was a valid London Terminus for the Waterloo lines (except maybe Wimbledon) That are no written rules that allow it, but it's fairly official policy that it's allowed. The newly installed ticket barriers at Waterloo have been programmed not to swallow tickets specifically because of it. |
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Jun 10, 2009 19:30:50 GMT
It is. It's on map WX, along with Waterloo. Bizarrely, one valid route from Cardiff Central to London is BD+MW+WX, which theoretically allows travel via Hereford, Shrewsbury, Wrexham, Shotton (change maps), Crewe, Stafford, Walsall, Birmingham, Didcot, Bath, Westbury (change maps), Salisbury, and Clapham Junction to Victoria. Funnily enough, I have no desire to try it... Somewhere online, someone has made a little engine that allows you to put in any two stations and it will produce all valid routes between the two stations. I think it was a chap called Clive, Google may well have the answer. I once put a Liverpool to Tywyn (Cambrian Coast) journey in and one option involved leaving Moorfields (one of four Liverpool stations) via Southport, Preston, Wigan, Manchester Victoria, Manchester Picadilly, Warrington Central, , Warrington Bank Quay, Huyton, Liverpool Lime Street, Liverpool Central, Liverpool South Parkway, Crewe, Chester, Birkenhead Central, Birkenhead North, Bidston, Wrexham, Shrewsbury then as "normal". I have to admit I was tempted to try it! |
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SE13
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Post by SE13 on Jun 10, 2009 19:36:55 GMT
My tickets usually state "London terminals via permitted route"
But as I come down the East Coast Mainline, I have little option but to go to KX, and I've never really thought about travelling further.
I might try the direct route to Euston next visit and see what it says then, especially if I tell them I want to get to "X" (as yet undetermined) because as I understand it, if I want to go to (say) Lewisham, the price should be the same as it's London, but I've got the add on.
No harm in asking I suppose, I'll update the thread when I have a definitive answer.
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Post by tubeoperator92 on Jun 10, 2009 19:50:38 GMT
Usually, if I plan to go down to Kent, I get me mam to advance book and send me whats called a Super Off Peak Return from Canterbury - London* and only use the return portion.  A cunning ruse you may say... * Canterbury - London Victoria or Charing Cross ONLY is £18.10 or £11.95 with railcard. Canterbury - London Terminals is dearer by a few quid, think it's £21.70 or £14.35 with railcard. All the tickets I have had recently have shown Not valid on HS1 on them. |
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