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Post by harrowrail on Apr 11, 2012 10:18:36 GMT
If A stock is not preserved now in working order it won't happen at all. Something needs to be done! People I talked to in TFL seem to rule out vehicles going to private owners. Let alone preserving one that operational. Unless someone know a way around all the rules they have in place. |
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neilw
now that's what I call a garden railway
Posts: 213
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Post by neilw on Apr 11, 2012 11:36:02 GMT
It believe it was done by soda-blasting, which is what I did to my 62TS, as shown here in a sort of before and after shot.....  Quite a messy process, but the initial results are good. It uses bi-carbonate of soda at about 2,000 psi. After a few years, the paint leeches back through, so I recently investigated wrapping it with vinyls of nicely oxidised aluminium. Not only was this very expensive, I haven't been able to get a good match for the colour. It is a very strange material, oxidised aluminium, and far from as suggested earlier in the thread, not at all easy to restore to"unrefurbished". I know CHT have the same dilemma with their 62TS set. Restoring the inside has been easier for me, but the "bird's eye maple melamine" at the guard's panel has proved tricky! As for the "shovel" lampshades on the emergency lights, well........... |
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Post by mikeyr1234 on Apr 11, 2012 12:31:26 GMT
Neilw - Is that your very own 62ts in your back garden?
*Mods* - without wishing to go too far off topic would it be ok for some pictures of the above to be posted? We are after all talking about preserved trains and by the looks of it there is a fine example above! That is of course if you wouldnt mind Neil?
Just to add, sorry if you have posted them in the past - I will have more than likely missed it!!
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neilw
now that's what I call a garden railway
Posts: 213
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Post by neilw on Apr 11, 2012 13:02:42 GMT
Hi, yes it's my very own 62TS, car 1677. There have been pictures on here from time to time, I'll try to do a montage when I get a minute. Playing trains at 12"/ft scale is certainly challenging....
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Post by mikeyr1234 on Apr 11, 2012 15:30:08 GMT
Brilliant! Look forward to it bud!
Sticking with the preservation theme here can I ask how you came about it, how difficult it was to purchase and did u get it straight from Tfl?
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neilw
now that's what I call a garden railway
Posts: 213
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Post by neilw on Apr 11, 2012 16:00:45 GMT
It's a long..........story, I'll pm you!
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Post by deansullivan on Apr 12, 2012 12:03:21 GMT
If A stock is not preserved now in working order it won't happen at all. Something needs to be done! People I talked to in TFL seem to rule out vehicles going to private owners. Let alone preserving one that operational. Unless someone know a way around all the rules they have in place. I thought I would do a quick check with Knights Rail Services at Eastleigh. They confirm they are unable to enter into any negotiations with third parties about former LUL rolling stock. So unless they have decided to store 5000 & 6000 then it’s bad luck for all of us. |
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Post by reganorak on Apr 12, 2012 12:09:39 GMT
For those of you au fait with Paris will know that near Versailles, Sprague stock is operated on special occasions on non-electrified track, with a generator on one of the (trailer, I think?) cars. Having been there, seen it and done it, it is fantastic - all the right sounds still from the motor cars.
So, where there's a will (and loads of money!), there's a way.
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Post by Guest on Apr 12, 2012 22:03:17 GMT
If A stock is not preserved now in working order it won't happen at all. Something needs to be done! People I talked to in TFL seem to rule out vehicles going to private owners. Let alone preserving one that operational. Unless someone know a way around all the rules they have in place. its a pretty poor excuse.how it can be seen as operational is another matter when its on the back of a transporter is another matter. other stock has been seen to be in private hands,however in some cases that's been scrapped later in some cases. |
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metman
Global Moderator
5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
Posts: 5,902
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Post by metman on Apr 12, 2012 22:08:02 GMT
Which is why it needs to be an inside job or someone with a lotto win- I'm trying folks.....
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Post by deansullivan on Apr 13, 2012 8:55:55 GMT
Which is why it needs to be an inside job or someone with a lotto win- I'm trying folks..... It was quite easy to acquire former LUL rolling stock until quite recently and fairly cheaply. So this is clearly a new change of direction. And I certainly cannot see the reason why they have decided to take this course of action. If someone is willing to save and store an ex LUL train or part of one, then why not offer it for sale? In the 50’s Bus preservation was unheard of – this is why so few examples exist of pre 40’s buses, trolleys & trams. Yes there are other reasons I accept, but preservationists were almost completely unheard of back then. Now it’s quite normal. In fact most of the Routemasters that came off in the last decade found willing homes either in preservation or alternative uses. Very few ended up in the scrap yard. Could it not be conceivable that with the current clear interest in railway memorabilia, that someone - somewhere could find the space to preserve a few carriages? I hardly think it would spoil the contract with the scrap yard as LUL could "on paper" dispose of it to the dealer who then sells it on to the new owner. This happens with main line stock. You can even buy a Diesel Locomotive or DMU with relative ease. In fact Booths offer them for sale on their website. Theres also mention of LUL carrages, but this is currently not the case. As I have said before, I have space here (at South Mimms) and elsewhere where I could store a carriage. For me it would need to have historic interest. So something like 5000 to make it worthwhile. I even went after the carriage we travelled in on the 67 stock tour! But it’s not going to happen unless LUL relax their stance. To highlight how things have changed, in the mid nineties, a 62 stock train was offered for auction by the then LUL Business Manager (and well know Transport author) Mike Horne. It was well advertised - including in the Evening Standard. The train was taken to Moorgate (Met platforms) for public viewing. Sadly on that occasion, there were no takers. However a small handful did get sold on to private preservationists. Part of one 59 stock was also purchased by the Met Police for training. So perhaps the 59/62 stocks are quite well represented outside of LUL. Including the well restored one in Nottinghamshire of course!  In addition one operational unit of the 60’s Cravens Stock (inc 38 stock trailer) was also sold to private preservationists, as was a 4 car 62 (for a relatively small sum). And LUL have been extremely generous in allowing these trains to remain on LUL metals. In fact, even a number of the short lived 83 stocks were saved in various guises, one I think as a recording studio in a London hospital, and a group of carriages are in use as offices on old railway land in Shoreditch. With the exception of the 67TS DM to Walthamstow Pump House, it seems LUL have decided not to release any more to private owners. That’s a shame in my view, as I feel that, in the case of the A stock and the 67 stock these are just as worthy of preservation. Yes its going to be a struggle, and some projects will inevitably fall by the wayside. But if they survive they will offer a glimpse at time of rapid change for London Underground. And also random sales give the opportunity that at some point in the future, these carriages to be collected back into one unit and brought back into operational use, if future generations deem it worthy and possible. Lastly in the LT/LRT Act, there is a legal requirement for LBSL/LUL to save items of historical interest for future generations. Its under that remit that the London Transport Museum exists. However its obviously not possible to save every example. Sadly once cut up - there’s no going back..... |
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Post by bronzeonion on Apr 13, 2012 9:44:35 GMT
There is just no common sense in this 'our contract says we can't sell this to you etc...' Booths could be making more money by selling a complete carriage to a preservationist than all the scrap metal to a scrap metal dealer.
Talking of the CHT 62ts, are there any plans for that to ever make a comeback on LU metals?
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Post by mappman1000 on Apr 13, 2012 15:23:14 GMT
There is just no common sense in this 'our contract says we can't sell this to you etc...' Booths could be making more money by selling a complete carriage to a preservationist than all the scrap metal to a scrap metal dealer. Ah yes, but the price of scrap metal makes it a good business to be in these days  |
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Post by mikeyr1234 on Apr 13, 2012 17:23:55 GMT
@ Dean, a very well worded post mate and one which I completely agree with.
It is honestly such a shame that Tfl seem to not want to allow people the chance to preserve what are absolute icons of the tube.
The 67's and the A's need to be preserved - I just think how sad it is when I see that we only have one of the Prototype HST Power cars left as the other one went to the cutters torch. As I understand it though this unit is now in the care of the "125" group who are looking at returning it to traffic which would just be fantastic!
The same goes for the APT-E - This was left to rot for many years outside the NRM until the APT-E.Org team took it on and spruced it up. It is now under cover at The Railway Age. I just hope that the remaining part of the APT-P at Crewe gets taken undercover sooner or later before it starts to rot.
If only we all had the time, money, effort and space we could be a real movement in preserving an A-Stock (Tfl allowing of course).
I would happily devote my time to something like this.
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Post by xercesfobe on Apr 13, 2012 18:32:44 GMT
I wonder if one or more of the London Mayoral candidates might run with this - worth ago ?
XF
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