A Stock looking tatty recently

[Deleted]

I use Kings Cross - Liverpool Street and like metman, approaching the 2 year mark now! The C stock really doesn't like the gap at Farringdon EB although departing slowly on a lower notch seem to solve the jerks.

In most cases, I find the A and C stocks to be pretty awful in ride terms but the A stock feels a little more bouncy than the C on the 45mph section between Kings Cross and Farringdon!

[metman]

Thankfully the bouncing kept me awake! I do have to say the track in Baker St-Euston area is so much better now it has been replaced! I found the C stock more uncomfortable because of the rail gaps, and being thrown left and then right on the longitudinal seats. On the A stock the transverse seats are more comfortable!

[Deleted]

Rail gaps on the C stock while on the move is bearable but again, Farringdon EB is nasty at full power. The C stock does seem to have superior initial acceleration than the A stock, giving the nasty jerks over the gaps when going over them at full power below 20mph or so.

Talking track replacements, I took the District WB today and we must have done Aldgate East -> Tower Hill in record speed. The track/points used to be rough where the Circle joins from the outer rail back in 2005-06 but it was very smooth today.

Another thing I noticed is that t/ops on the D stock seem far more confident braking than the A and C stocks. On the A/C stocks, there is a constant application and release of brakes while on the D stock, one long application coming in and minor adjustments at low speed really does improve the ride quality.

I wonder if the better brakes also help the D stock overcome its dwell time shortcomings as I've saved up to 10 seconds in train driving games through good braking.

[Chris M]

I remember reading on here somewhere recently that the quality of the breaks on C stocks varies considerably from unit to unit. This might have something to do with it.

[metman]

We must remember that the A stock has a separate brake and motoring controls! The A stock does not have reostatic braking either. I like the separate brake handle especially out on the extension line where the braking is quite smooth (depending on the t/op!).

I've noticed that the A stock trains always seem to display a weak field flag in the central area. I thought the flag would be lowered to aid quicker acceleration on the Circle line? On the ELL the flag was down! Any ideas?

[d78delta]

awkward42 said:

I remember reading on here somewhere recently that the quality of the breaks on C stocks varies considerably from unit to unit. This might have something to do with it.

The braking systems on C67/77 trainsets are a heap of (insert word here).

Being on a C stock is the equivalent of being in the locomotive of an unfitted freight train - with all the wagons behind it kicking the loco up the rear.

The C stocks as a whole, are clumsy heaps of (insert word here), infact - all underground rolling stock is really, none of them are better than the other.

Whether it be an A60/62 stock chugging up the Met Main with it's bogies cracking open or a 1992 stock giving birth to traction motors - they're all rubbish in one way or another.

[metman]

Hmmm, interesting point of view. We, of course have a really poor underground network don't we?! No doubt the same network that takes you to work every morning!

[d78delta]

I don’t see the fascination in LUL rolling stock - it’s just a bit of plastic on bogies.

If you want to see what a real piece of rolling stock engineering is like - go and watch the National Railway or go across to Europe and study their metro networks.

There's more to a railway than the trains - why not go and study signalling or history.

[metman]

No offence, but why post on an LU forum then?

[a60]

Does anyone know how 5130 is looking?

[undergroundernie]

Personally I think the creaking, groaning and jolting all adds to the experience of riding on an A stock they get you from A to B what more could you ask for in a metro system and they are part of the historic evolution of the London Underground.

[metman]

Here here!!!

[astock5000]

undergroundernie said:

Personally I think the creaking, groaning and jolting all adds to the experience of riding on an A stock they get you from A to B what more could you ask for in a metro system and they are part of the historic evolution of the London Underground.

I agree. Also, the seats are comfortable, and A stock must be good trains because they have lasted so long. Some 1938TS did, but not that much of the fleet and 1938s had more overhauls.

[metman]

To be fair they're still going strong on the IOW!

[astock5000]

Yes, but there are only 6 two car units still in use. Nearly all A stock built is still in service. A stock is 46-8 years old. How many 38TS trains were in service in the mid 1980s?

[Deleted]

The A stock used a lot of tried and tested technology in its construction, so experience in maintaining trains with its equipment was already there.

The 1938ts was a ground breaking design and for some of them to survive into the mid-80s in service was a testament to the design and the overhaul process. Equipment such as the compressor in the 38ts were unreliable because they had to be miniaturised to fit under the floor of the cars.

[astock5000]

rob said:

The 1938ts was a ground breaking design and for some of them to survive into the mid-80s in service was a testament to the design and the overhaul process. Equipment such as the compressor in the 38ts were unreliable because they had to be miniaturised to fit under the floor of the cars.

Wasn't there a strike at Acton Works once and a lot of 1938TS were out of service because of faulty compressors?

[Deleted]

In 1969 there was a craftsman's strike at Acton Works meaning the compressors weren't overhauled. There were numerous unit reformations to try and get working trains.

[astock5000]

And they then replaced some with the 1972 MK1 stock.

[metman]

especially the UNDM which were robbed of some elements of their shunt equipment and then scrapped!

[undergroundernie]

It would be nice to think that one day there will be an A stock heritage train.

[metman]

I believe there will be. I spoke to one of the blokes at the depot and they plan to have an A stock train-although they may have to get rid of the standard stock!!!! I would certainly want to be involved with the preservation.

[astock5000]

metman said:

I believe there will be. I spoke to one of the blokes at the depot and they plan to have an A stock train-although they may have to get rid of the standard stock!!!! I would certainly want to be involved with the preservation.

5000-6000-6001-5001 should be preserved, because it is the first one.

[metman]

I won't be preserved because it is a single ended unit! The depot does not have room for an 8 car train. The first double ended unit is 5056-57 (which just so happens to be one of my models and train in my avatar pic)!

[astock5000]

They could convert it into a double ended unit by taking equipment from other units.

[metman]

Nah they won't do that-its too expensive! There's a lot of work doing that and money is not forthcoming.

[Deleted]

I'd rather have the Q stock closer to being operational rather than converting an A stock cab!

[astock5000]

Then, why not have DM 5000 on display in Covent Garden and 5056-6056-6057-5057 at Acton?

[a60]

I think 5066-6066-6067-5067 should be the running one, as it served the last train on the East London Line as an Underground Line.

Saw it yesterday.

By the way, 5205 is in a really bad way.

A60

[Chris M]

a60 said:

I think 5066-6066-6067-5067 should be the running one, as it served the last train on the East London Line as an Underground Line.

Doubly so if it gets the last A-stock duty on (part of) the Met. Persumably the Chesham shuttle will be the last regular A-stock working?