Driving duties on the ELL

[Deleted]

What does the average duty sheet for a driving shift on the ELL look like?

[Deleted]

I would imagine lots of journeys and changing ends! Obviously the driving parameters will be the same, so up to 4 hours 15 mins of driving without a break.

It must be just running up and down the line all day! Would bore me witless... Like being on a rota which only operated the Olympia trains! ;D

[Deleted]

When I was at Leytonstone I had the displeasur of working the W&C, with a 4 minute run and 3 minute turnarounds at Bank, it made the Olympias look like the East Coast Main Line you done quite a few trips in a day.

[Admin Team]

AlanL said:

I would imagine lots of journeys and changing ends! Obviously the driving parameters will be the same, so up to 4 hours 15 mins of driving without a break.

It must be just running up and down the line all day! Would bore me witless... Like being on a rota which only operated the Olympia trains! ;D

But at least you can always get rid of Olympias!

Anyway, the ELL's not a 'line' at all - it's a long siding. Don't know why they bother with signals, apart from a couple of shunts!!!

[James]

Jim said:

When I was at Leytonstone I had the displeasur of working the W&C, with a 4 minute run and 3 minute turnarounds at Bank, it made the Olympias look like the East Coast Main Line you done quite a few trips in a day.

Ouch! The thing which gets me about the Drain is how hot it gets down there in Summer. It's the one thing which makes me glad to get onto an SWT 455. I really would hate to work that line.

Just wondering - has anyone ever suggested automating the Drain?

[Tom]

Guest-James said:

Just wondering - has anyone ever suggested automating the Drain?

The ATP code selection circuitry is there but there isn't any ATO equipment. Oh, and the ATP kit is due to be decommissioned next summer, so I don't think it will happen any time soon.

[Deleted]

Tom said:

The ATP code selection circuitry is there but there isn't any ATO equipment. Oh, and the ATP kit is due to be decommissioned next summer, so I don't think it will happen any time soon.

*And* the 1992 ts that is down there is near enough as it was when it was delivered, in comparison to the 92ts on he central line, that has had 72 + mods on it! lol

[Deleted]

Met said:

*And* the 1992 ts that is down there is near enough as it was when it was delivered, in comparison to the 92ts on he central line, that has had 72 + mods on it! lol

It's got to be more than that, when I was there in 1994 they were saying the W&C units were 80 mods behind the Central Line units.

[Deleted]

Jim said:

It's got to be more than that, when I was there in 1994 they were saying the W&C units were 80 mods behind the Central Line units.

80?

I read somewhere that it was somewhere south of 250 mods and climbing!

[Deleted]

TheOneKEA said:

80?

I read somewhere that it was somewhere south of 250 mods and climbing!

It probably is now, but in 1994 it was 80

[Deleted]

Jim said:

It's got to be more than that, when I was there in 1994 they were saying the W&C units were 80 mods behind the Central Line units.

72 is my random number! Yes the number is more like 400 if not more!

[Deleted]

Would this be quite a fair representation? I don't know a lot about the ELL, so I'm assuming Surrey Quays is the book on point and I don't know how duties are numbered, so I invented one.

The / represents a half minute.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

MONDAYS TO FRIDAYS 109

B/ON - 12:00 SQS B/OFF - 20:25 SQS

TRAIN 172 D
SQSNB 12:09 WCPL 12:16/
WCPL 12:20/ NXX 12:32
NXX 12:35 WCPL 12:46/
WCPL 12:50/ NXG 13:01/
NXG 13:06 WCPL 13:17/
WCPL 13:20/ NXX 13:32
NXX 13:35 WCPL 13:46/
WCPL 13:50/ NXG 14:01/
NXG 14:06 WCPL 14:16/
WCPL 14:20/ NXX 14:32
NXX 14:35 WCPL 14:46/
WCPL 14:50/ NXG 15:01/
NXG 15:06/ WCPL 15:17
WCPL 15:18 SHDH 15:20 ETY EX
SHDH 15:23 WCPL 15:24/ ETY EU
WCPL 15:24/ NXG 15:36
NXG 15:41 SHDH 15:54/
SHDH 15:57/ SQSSB 16:07
TO NEW CROSS GATE

M/R - 16:20 - 16:50 SURREY QUAYS

TRAIN 173
SQSNB 17:02/ SHDH 17:12/
SHDH 17:15/ NXX 17:29
NXX 17:34/ SHDH 17:48/
SHDH 17:51/ NXX 18:05
NXX 18:10/ SHDH 18:24/
SHDH 18:27/ NXX 18:41
NXX 18:46/ SHDH 19:00/
SHDH 19:03/ NXX 19:17
NXX 19:23 WCPL 19:34/
WCPL 19:38/ NXG 19:49/
NXG 19:54 WCPL 20:04
WCPL 20:08/ SQSSB 20:16
TO NEW CROSS

PAYS - 7:55

[Deleted]

I believe the crew point is actually at New Cross/New Cross Gate rather than Surrey Quays.

The last time I used the ELL, the standing time at each end was about 10 minutes. However the rest of your 'plan' would certainly reflect the working, going to New Cross on one trip and New Cross Gate the next etc.

The ELL was one of the lines I was offered when I first joined LUL, but I thought it would be very boring! I still stand by that thought!

[q8]

When I was on the Wet 'n' windy the crew point was in the depot itself as it has better road access than Surrey Quays for car parking etc. As for train running they ran exactly as shown in the list. I.E. one trip to the Cross and the next to the Gate. Turnround time was half the headway. Incidentally half minutes are shown on signal sheets as a + (plus) sign but in WTT's as a letter. "a" being half a minute, "b" one minute, "c" 90 seconds and so forth.

[Deleted]

My timings were taken from WTT no.7 - 29/09/2002. I didn't realise the book on point was actually in the depot. The timings look quite harsh and the working on the line looks quite boring. Mind you, I think I'd rather be a T/op on the ELL compared to the Victoria.

[Colin]

I am concerned about your turn round times - only 3 mins - sod working for you mate!! ;D ;D
As far as i'm aware (someone pull me up if i'm wrong) the minimum turn round time allowed on LUL is 4 minutes.
Got to have time for a healthy smoke!! ;D
(where allowed of course)

[suncloud]

COLIN said:

I am concerned about your turn round times - only 3 mins

But they do only have half as far to walk

[Deleted]

COLIN said:

As far as i'm aware (someone pull me up if i'm wrong) the minimum turn round time allowed on LUL is 4 minutes.
Got to have time for a healthy smoke!! ;D
(where allowed of course)

Yes, you always have 4 minutes to change ends.

[citysig]

COLIN said:

As far as i'm aware (someone pull me up if i'm wrong) the minimum turn round time allowed on LUL is 4 minutes.
Got to have time for a healthy smoke!! ;D
(where allowed of course)

Actually, there is no "minimum" apart from the time taken to get the route back behind you and clear the stick back out. I don't think it is worded as a "maximum" either, but phones will start ringing if you take longer than that for no good reason (although on the real railway we are slightly more lenient and will normally allow 5 as they are big proper trains.)

If you're talking of minimum in terms of timetable writing, then generally it's booked as more than 4 minutes, apart from the ELL and W&C - which as has been said have shorter trains and a bit of padding throughout the trips.

[q8]

I "THINK" ELL men do Jubilee line work too so that relieves the monotony I assume. There is also a rumour going the rounds down there that they may be doing W&C work as well. Dunno if it is true. possibly just wishful thinking as I thought they were different "firms"

[Deleted]

Hmmm, there were certainly no ELL men on the Jubilee while I was over there!
The ELL is owned by SSR while the W&C is part of the Central (BCV) and the Jubilee is part of JNP, so I'd assume there would be none of that going on these days!

From the ELL to the W&C to relieve boredom?! Bloody hell, there's irony in there somewhere! ;D

[citysig]

alanl said:

The ELL is owned by SSR while the W&C is part of the Central (BCV)

I'm sure (and I posted it somewhere recently, but open to be corrected) the W&C has become part of SSL. Can't remember where I saw it written, but I am sure that is what has (or had until recently) happened. That would explain the duties split between W&C and ELL.

[Tom]

Yes it's SSR's now, sadly we're still responsible for the engineering side of it though.

[Deleted]

Ah! Someone used the phrase "you learn something new every day" earlier, and that's certainly true in this case!

[itsAlexh]

Hello everyone, had to sign in as guest until my mate's e - mail sends me the activation code (b*oody AOL). Does anyone know how many drivers work on the ELL? At a guess (This is where I look silly) I'd say about 15 - 20.

[Admin Team]

itsAlexh said:

Hello everyone, had to sign in as guest until my mate's e - mail sends me the activation code (b*oody AOL). Does anyone know how many drivers work on the ELL? At a guess (This is where I look silly) I'd say about 15 - 20.

Well, get yourself a decent server then you won't have to use AOHell!!

On topic (well, at least as to the number of drivers..) I think you'd be surprised at the number.

If you reckon on the number of trains running at any given time, allow for rest days, annual leave, training, sickness and spares I wouldn't be surprised if it were more like 100 - 120.

Bear in mind the District's operating +/- 80 trains at any one time (dependant on the time of day etc.) we have a total of about 500! It's surprising the allowances that it all needs.

[Deleted]

Well, get yourself a decent server then you won't have to use AOHell!! - DD

I've eventually got it sorted and I can be myself again, I know this is off topic but how do you highlight a quote in the smaller letters and the box? I'd love to know

[Colin]

If you look at the top right hand corner of this post you'll see it's say's 'quote'. It's the same for every post on the forum.
Once you click on 'quote', you should recognise the rest.

[Admin Team]

alexh said:

I've eventually got it sorted and I can be myself again, I know this is off topic but how do you highlight a quote in the smaller letters and the box? I'd love to know

Ah! Actually quite easy Alex.

All you do is hit the 'Quote' button on the particular post that you want to respond to, and that text is then shown above whatever you type in response.

If you wish to edit the quote, highlight the text you want to delete and hit the delete key.

Hope that makes sense!

[Deleted]

admin said:

itsAlexh said:

On topic (well, at least as to the number of drivers..) I think you'd be surprised at the number.

If you reckon on the number of trains running at any given time, allow for rest days, annual leave, training, sickness and spares I wouldn't be surprised if it were more like 100 - 120.

Bear in mind the District's operating +/- 80 trains at any one time (dependant on the time of day etc.) we have a total of about 500! It's surprising the allowances that it all needs.

erm.......................I do feel silly now