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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2006 21:45:33 GMT
When the time comes to begin building the fleets of new trains for the Bakerloo and Piccadilly Lines, will the same bodyshell being built for the 2009TS be reused?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2006 21:46:37 GMT
Seeing as Bombardier use the same Bodyshell for the Electrostars and Turbostars, I'd say that is a distinct possibility...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2006 22:27:42 GMT
I thought the 2009ts were too large to fit any other tube line?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2006 22:29:11 GMT
Are they? I knew they would be delivered by road to Northumberland Park but I expected them to be the same size as any other tube stock, to allow them to be taken to Ealing Common for testing on the test track.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2006 22:29:55 GMT
I do believe you're right there, adw... 2009ts is being built to the 'maximum tunnel envelope'...
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Nov 19, 2006 22:33:43 GMT
And under EU (yeuk!) law, every contract must go out to open tender, so the next tube stock could well go to Hitachi or similar. Only exception is if the new contract can be considered an extension of an existing one. Which is what didn't happen with the Jubbly 7th cars.
Don't blame me - I voted 'no' in 1973!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2006 22:48:13 GMT
Didn't someone say that we should be: "In it [the EU] and not ran by it" Also, we have missed the option to pull out of the EU Agreement by x amount of years, and even if we did do that then, we would have to undo a lot of [some would say unnecessary] EU Legislation... Most of it is complete hogwash, but some would disagree with me... I mean, take the EU Working Time Directive... they claim we work the longest hours in all of Europe! Why? because earnings are low in respect of living costs... Also, while on this subject, from April 1st [!], Germany will be putting up the VAT rate, to 'lead the way towards one single harmonised VAT rate for the entire EU'.
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Nov 19, 2006 22:58:27 GMT
Also, while on this subject, from April 1st [!], Germany will be putting up the VAT rate, to 'lead the way towards one single harmonised VAT rate for the entire EU'. ....which won't happen unless THEY harmonise with US!!! Fortunately tha's one area where we won't be giving in, along with our refusal to drop our right to a veto over things we really can't accept. Mind you, it'll be interesting if/when the Conservatives next get in. There are several things they have said they will 'un-negotiate' such as those working hours......... |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2006 23:06:30 GMT
Germany's VAT rate is currently 16%... I do not have the figure as to what it is going up to...
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Nov 20, 2006 7:16:00 GMT
Back on topic, yes, prjb said the 2009ts will be too big for other (tube) lines.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Nov 20, 2006 7:43:34 GMT
Indeed it will be - but the basic shape can be used, just modified to the appropriate line's loading gauge.
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Nov 20, 2006 21:00:40 GMT
I would imagine that the same principals would be used by Bombardier for any future BCV stock but not necessarily the exact same body shell. New project equals new ideas and also newer technological jumps in terms of equipment (smaller/lighter etc).
The Piccadilly is next up in around 2016, so it will be interesting to see where Tubelines go.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2006 21:02:41 GMT
but surely the Bakerloo is due some new stock since they are basically the same design as the 67 and are only 5[?] years younger?
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Nov 20, 2006 21:12:33 GMT
I had this very conversation with someone this morning! Apparently Metronet will be concentrating on the VLU and SSR for the time being, as well as a refurbishment for the Central line 92's. So I guess the poor old Bakerloo will have to soldier on.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2006 21:15:16 GMT
they are getting some new stock... from the Vic aren't they for the extension but the 72s aren't in that bad nick at the moment though. Will they last till they are 50 though?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2006 21:50:39 GMT
I had this very conversation with someone this morning! Apparently Metronet will be concentrating on the VLU and SSR for the time being, as well as a refurbishment for the Central line 92's. So I guess the poor old Bakerloo will have to soldier on. So there is no chance of "economies of scale" making it sensible to replace the 1972TS as well? After all, they are only five years younger than the 1967TS, and while the withdrawal of the latter will definitely provide a float of parts and bodyshells to keep the former going for a while, it seems strange that there are no opportunities to save money by replacing both fleets now. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2006 21:55:21 GMT
they aren't even the same size now! so most components like ATO would have to be changed around when the Bakerloo isn't in as dire need of new trains.
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Post by bwhughes on Nov 20, 2006 21:55:57 GMT
The Metronet site says that the Bakerloo is not scheduled for an upgrade until 2020!
This could probably make it the most inferior line in the views of Olympic visitors in 2012 (though the Picc would be in a similar position as the trains are only slightly younger than those on the Bakerloo)
However, for heritage fans it could be a godsend that there will still be late 60s-designed trains (remembering they use a v.similar bodyshell to the 67TS) in service until 14 years time!
Especially when all the other lines have had their 60s and 70s rolling stock replaced (District included, even though its trains are newer) by a universal style train with supposedly less character (in the opinion of heritage enthusiasts anyway)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2006 22:00:22 GMT
This is true! By 2020 the 1972TS and compatible types will be at least 48 years old; they will become the very last "proper trains" running on the whole combine, the second oldest of LU rolling stock, and the last remaining examples of the middle years of London Transport.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2006 22:01:08 GMT
Why is a refurbishment of the 92ts given higher priority than replacing the Bakerloo stock, which will be 44 years old by 2016?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2006 22:06:28 GMT
they will be the last non-computer stock if that makes sense. The last stock with dials and with both main line and train line air.
the LU digital switch-over if that makes sense...
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Post by bwhughes on Nov 20, 2006 22:08:57 GMT
...That will never go wrong like the Central did this morning!!!!!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2006 14:42:19 GMT
The 72TS are pretty reliable AFAIK, so why replace something that works? Wait... when did common sense get revived?
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Post by william on Nov 23, 2006 15:16:20 GMT
Why is a refurbishment of the 92ts given higher priority than replacing the Bakerloo stock, which will be 44 years old by 2016? Probably because they want the line upgrade to coincide with the new stock. |
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Post by trainopd78 on Nov 24, 2006 12:58:08 GMT
The 72TS are pretty reliable AFAIK, so why replace something that works? Wait... when did common sense get revived? The 73ts are even more reliable than the 72's by quite a margin from last years figures. The sentimentalist in me says hooray to conventional stock, but I think realsitically the 73's should be replaced last. They were quite a large step forward from the 72ts at the time and there are also far fewer defects that require a push out from a second driver too. The 73's are also much more modern looking and I still think the 73's had the best refirb program on the whole underground. Their interiors look better than any tube stock built since IMHO. |
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Post by Chris W on Nov 24, 2006 20:36:52 GMT
The 73's are also much more modern looking and I still think the 73's had the best referb program on the whole underground. Their interiors look better than any tube stock built since IMHO. Absolutely...... no tube stock since comes up to the standard set by the 73 cars.... the 92 stock were next (just think of that... nearly 20 years between the building of tube stock) which now fall apart at the latest bounce/shake and the 95/96 cars totally lack charisma IMHO Solid and relaible.... that's how I like my trains..... Ok this has gone a bit off topic....   As a side issue what is to happen to the mock up car that was exhibited at Euston? |
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Nov 27, 2006 12:37:20 GMT
As a side issue what is to happen to the mock up car that was exhibited at Euston? As stated in a different thread, it never was a car, just a mockup in "wood and paper". |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2006 21:26:21 GMT
and iirc, it wasn't a full length car; only 3/4 lengths of a car!
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Nov 29, 2006 16:21:55 GMT
As a side issue what is to happen to the mock up car that was exhibited at Euston? As stated in a different thread, it never was a car, just a mockup in "wood and paper". No, it was a 'proper' car. It was formed from the first body shell which BTUK used for strain guage testing. On completion it was cut in half and fully fitted out with real fixtures and fittings. The mock-up has been promised to the LTM. Look out for the 'S' Stock mock-up next year. I feel a forum tour coming on!  |
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Post by bwhughes on Nov 29, 2006 22:12:50 GMT
I was in London about two weeks before the mock-up opened and was hugely disappointed to miss the 09TS mockup! It looked v. promising
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