Overground Transfer

[jakehn54]

The stations from New Cross Gate to West Croydon are being taken over by London Overground managment in September, does this mean the stations will be rebranded and Oyster will be sold at these stations from the 1st day of new management.

[Deleted]

That i think is the proposal, even though the service calling at these stations will still be Southern or is it South Eastern not sure. The staff will certainly be TUPEd over on 1st September.

[Deleted]

What about Pay as you go oyster? Does that mean you can use it between those stations, but not from New Cross to central London by rail?

[johnb]

ICBW, but I don't think PAYG will be valid until LO *train* services start from those stations, which won't be until some time in 2010, by which time PAYG will be valid on Southern and Southeastern services anyway.

[jakehn54]

Aug 3, 2009 14:22:55 GMT @johnb said:

ICBW, but I don't think PAYG will be valid until LO *train* services start from those stations, which won't be until some time in 2010, by which time PAYG will be valid on Southern and Southeastern services anyway.

*should be

[Deleted]

Oyster PAYG will probably be valid on those rickshaws in the west end before it is on national rail.

[Deleted]

Just had a search and found this
www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/index.php/faqs/faqs_questions/question/108

# Do you accept Oyster cards on your network?
We do already accept season tickets on Oyster on our network (within the valid zones) but we do not currently accept Oyster pay as you go (PAYG).

We are working with Transport for London (TfL) to introduce PAYG which requires significant investment with additional validators needed, automatic ticket gates at some stations, etc. It's envisaged we'll be able to introduce Oyster PAYG sometime in 2010. But it's important to say that Oyster PAYG will not be cheaper than our usual rail fares.

[flippyff]

Aug 3, 2009 18:36:35 GMT @somersetchris said:

Just had a search and found this
www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/index.php/faqs/faqs_questions/question/108

# Do you accept Oyster cards on your network?
We do already accept season tickets on Oyster on our network (within the valid zones) but we do not currently accept Oyster pay as you go (PAYG).

We are working with Transport for London (TfL) to introduce PAYG which requires significant investment with additional validators needed, automatic ticket gates at some stations, etc. It's envisaged we'll be able to introduce Oyster PAYG sometime in 2010. But it's important to say that Oyster PAYG will not be cheaper than our usual rail fares.

But what we want/need to know is if PayG Oyster fare on NR will count towards the daily price cap? If not, I'll stick to the Z1-6 paper travelcard - if there will be Oyster agents left selling them in New Cross by then, quite a few already only do Z1-4.

Simon

[twa]

Ticket barriers are currently being installed at New Cross Gate so i would imagine PAYG will be available

[21146]

My staff pass opened the gates at New Cross last year over a year after the ELL closed!

[Deleted]

Is London Overground like any other TOC where it's contracted to run a service for a fixed time, or is it like LUL, where it is permanantly controlled by TfL?

[johnb]

LO is permanently controlled by TfL, and then LOROL (a joint venture between Deutsche Bahn and the Hong Kong MTR) is contracted to run trains for a fixed time on TfL's behalf.

Unlike conventional rail franchises, LOROL doesn't take the revenues from LO: it's just paid a fixed fee to deliver a service, like London bus operators.

[Deleted]

Do LOROL get bonuses or penalties for late running, cancellations, station cleanliness and staffing, etc?

[Deleted]

Aug 17, 2009 15:24:23 GMT @johnb said:

LO is permanently controlled by TfL, and then LOROL (a joint venture between Deutsche Bahn and the Hong Kong MTR) is contracted to run trains for a fixed time on TfL's behalf.

Unlike conventional rail franchises, LOROL doesn't take the revenues from LO: it's just paid a fixed fee to deliver a service, like London bus operators.

Tar for that. That's something I've been wondering for a while.

[Deleted]

And Ive still not finished writing this up but basically from the 20th September 2009 LO/LOROL takes control of every station from New Cross gate to West Croydon and includes Crystal Palace.

This doesn not mean Oyster equipment will be vaild. It means they are rebranding all the stations and installing Oyster readers ready for when services over the East London Railway begin in May 2010.

LO need time to get the stuff installed, tested and working for day one of the new services.

Hopefully by the time the ELR services open all the trains serving these station will be vaild on Oyster PAYG or there will be confusion.

In the long term these station are going to end up being served by as many as three different operators in cluding LO, and the new Southern and Thameslink franchise come 2015.

[flippyff]

At New Cross Gate they've installed the new entrance onto New Cross Road and the new new level(-ish) access onto platform 5 and both have been painted in Southern light green. Wouldn't it have made more sense to paint them in LOROL orange?

Simon

[Deleted]

Aug 27, 2009 22:03:35 GMT flippyff said:

At New Cross Gate they've installed the new entrance onto New Cross Road and the new new level(-ish) access onto platform 5 and both have been painted in Southern light green. Wouldn't it have made more sense to paint them in LOROL orange?

Simon

Well, it is still a Southern station... and they have to leave something for the new management to do ;D ;D ;D

[twa]

Does anyone know when trial running is due to start

[flippyff]

Not too soon I'd hope! When I walked past New Cross Gate station on Monday that track just past the south end on Platform 1 was splayed and hadn't been joined together.

Simon

[Deleted]

Aug 28, 2009 7:26:39 GMT @twa said:

Does anyone know when trial running is due to start

Heard March on the 'Core' (ie ex ELL) section with full shadow running in April but that was awhile back before they had a few issues with Dalston.

[jakehn54]

I asked a member of staff when is the transfer to London Overground who claimed it should happen in 9 years time (which is obviously not true). So does anyone know when it will occur?

[Deleted]

LU are transferring over their former assets on 15 September, and upthread the date of 20 September is mentioned for the NR stations.

[Ben]

Hate to sound thick here, but why did the original plan of TfL retaining maintainence of the ELL section get changed? Was it just realised it would have created an anomoly similar to formally the IOW?

[Deleted]

TfL are still in full control of the former ELL section I believe, so although London Underground cede control next Tuesday it is their 'brother' company Rail for London that will look after it in the future.

I'm not sure of the exact planned maintenance arrangements, but the logical thing to do would be to have the same subcontractors that do work on the rest of London Overground.

As you say, there will be very little in common between LU and the new ELR so it wouldn't give much - or any - advantage to maintain it as part of the Underground.

With St Mary's Curve gone you would have a tortuous route for access as well - the quickest way I can think of to the LU network is via Willesden Junction and the Bakerloo.

[21146]

At one point St.Mary's Curve was going to be reinstated as a single unelectrified link.

[Dstock7080]

www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/media/newscentre/12590.aspx

[Deleted]

Sept 17, 2009 13:32:28 GMT Dstock7080 said:

www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/media/newscentre/12590.aspx

So, will oyster PAYG be valid on those stations from 20 September?

If so; will you have a ludicrous situation where you can use it, say, from Anerley all the way up to New Cross Gate - but not all the way to London Bridge?

[flippyff]

Posting here as it seems a good a place as any.....

New Cross Gate now has gates and a double-width 'fence' (to prevent jumping?) but the gates have been open so far, I'll go and see if that has now changed under LO ownership today.
The quick-ticket machine didn't have the Oyster pad yesterday.

The fencing across the throat of the new ELLE flyover at NXG was gone by yesterday, it was in place last weekend. I shall check the track at platform 1 and see if it is still splayed or has been re-joined. There were lots of workmen present on the other side of the tracks in the depot area - I can't recall seeing them working on a Saturday before.

The quick ticket machine at Queens Road Peckham does have the Oyster pad and a sticker above it saying PAYG isn't valid on services from this station.

I curious as to why Victoria - Balham PayG hasn't been extended to Streatham Common seeing as that is now gated and in the most part operational.

Simon

[21146]

I wonder if *any* of these stations will ever get new LO signage installed? IIRC LO is now nearly two years' old and they haven't managed to re-sign or fully refurbish a single station yet. The two stations with new (permanent) roundel signs are both new-build, one for Silverlink and other still not open.

[Deleted]

Sept 20, 2009 11:47:33 GMT @21146 said:

I wonder if *any* of these stations will ever get new LO signage installed? IIRC LO is now nearly two years' old and they haven't managed to re-sign or fully refurbish a single station yet. The two stations with new (permanent) roundel signs are both new-build, one for Silverlink and other still not open.

I don't think that rebranding should be a priority. All of the stations on the ELLX will be served by Southern and LO trains. Norwood Junction also has some South Eastern services. Additionally, from 2015 they will also be served by Thameslink. I think there should be small signs displaying which franchises serve any given station. But as we saw when Connex was stripped of it's access rights and Southern replaced it, tax payers money was spent on large scale re-branding. So if anything the stations should be made franchise neutral.