Planned Stabling at Lillie Bridge

[Deleted]

From Dec 2010 it is planned for 10 C/D stock trains to enter service from Lille Bridge Depot each day. So it looks like some other sidings will close from the same time.

[elo10538]

Is this planned relocation of stabling all to do with the accommodation of the deliveries of the new S Stock. A re jig of stabling needed to accommodate A Stock displaced from Neasden Depot?

[sammyj]

Sorry if this is an obvious question - is Lille Bridge the depot near West Ken and how many ways are there to reach it?

[Oracle]

It is indeed the one near West Ken..and unless things have changed it is accessible still from the Eastbound District at West Ken via a connection. There is or was a trailing crossover from the EB to the Westbound that used to be used by certain early morning Piccadilly trains. There is also a connection into the Olympia branch before it goes into the single line section.
Tubeprune's page has a diagram (which I commented on some time back directly with him):

www.tubeprune.com/route%20and%20track%20diagrams.html

[Dstock7080]

(beaten to it by Oracle!)
Lillie Bridge is indeed near West Kensington.
Rail access is either via West Kensington EB platform or from the Olympia branch- both ways in/out will be used.

It's not really to hold displaced Stock from Neasden, it's because several locations currently used on the SSR are unsuitable for S7 stabling, (Edgware Road, Farringdon, Parsons Green, Hammersmith, Triangle)

The trailing EB-WB crossover is now used by early morning DR trains.

[elo10538]

I thought the first line to get the new S Stock was the Met rather than the other SSR lines.Why move stock about that run on lines that aren't immediately about about to get the new S Stock?

[Deleted]

Jun 16, 2010 15:40:46 GMT elo10538 said:

I thought the first line to get the new S Stock was the Met rather than the other SSR lines.Why move stock about that run on lines that aren't immediately about about to get the new S Stock?

This is because there will be a shortage of space to stable trains because of modifications to stable S Stock.

Also, from 28 June 2010, traction current in Lillie Bridge depot will be permanently on and no longer part of the Barons Court - Earls Court EB Dist section.

[tubeprune]

We know that there will be 13 more trains on the system when the S Stock is all delivered. As they're getting longer trains, they've already lost 13 existing stablng spaces, making 26 required in all. The 13 they lose are: 3 at Farringdon, 5 at Hammersmith, 2 at Triangle, 2 at Edgware Road, 1 at PG. I estimate that they could get 4 more in Neasden, 1 at Uxbridge, 1 more in Barking, 3 at Ealing Common, 3 Upminster, 10 Lillie Bridge, 1 in Moorgate, 1 at Edgware Rd Platform and 2 in Acton Town sidings. Other solutions (and there are others) would probably cost more. Anyone want to offer me odds?

[District Dave]

As I'm heavily involved in this issue I can add a little detail.

As mentioned the use of Lillie Bridge is indeed closely related to the S Stock project and it will be eventually used to stable S7 trains.

In the meantime (as mentioned) it will be used to stable both C and D Stock trains from the introduction of the next timetable in December 2010. Trains will stable both via West Kensington and from Kensington Olympia.

It will be available from September for use by passenger stocks for unscheduled and diverted reversals, stabling etc.

A programme of training District line Train Operators will commence from mid-July to be completed by the time the depot becomes available - all T/Ops will be trained.

Work to update the depot is well advanced. Traction Current rails have been renewed, the sectionalisation switches are currently being installed and the new walkways are approaching completion. The new cabin shunters cabin has been installed.

It will indeed be possible to stable up to 10 trains on the roads allocated to the operational trains; two roads (effectively spurs) will be decommissioned - all others will remain available.

[Deleted]

Dave,

Will the cabin shunters be the existing Tube Lines Transplant ones do you know?

[Deleted]

Jun 17, 2010 2:55:19 GMT @monkfish said:

Dave,

Will the cabin shunters be the existing Tube Lines Transplant ones do you know?

No reason not to be if they transfer under TUPE arrangements with the depot transfer.

[District Dave]

Jun 17, 2010 2:55:19 GMT @monkfish said:

Dave,

Will the cabin shunters be the existing Tube Lines Transplant ones do you know?

To the best of my knowledge they will be.

I'm working closely with CMO Fleet's trainers to agree all the procedures and radio protocols for the depot and all the stuff we are agreeing will be the same for both the Depot and Operational staff so we're all working to the same plan!

[District Dave]

Jun 17, 2010 6:19:07 GMT @lnwrelectric said:

No reason not to be if they transfer under TUPE arrangements with the depot transfer.

AFAIK the depot will still stay within the Tubelines (or whoever) system - only parts of the depot are being allocated for use by the Operational side of the business.

The P/way work, stores and battery locos will still continue to use the depot as now.

[Ben]

Thanks for the info Dave.

So the option of anything at South Harrow has been ruled out, if ever considered?

[District Dave]

Jun 17, 2010 9:08:13 GMT Ben said:

Thanks for the info Dave.

So the option of anything at South Harrow has been ruled out, if ever considered?

I have to say I've never heard any mention of anything involving South Harrow - certainly for the District (unless of course the old chestnut of the District reclaiming the Rayners Lane service appears again - as I'm sure it will!).

I can't really comment about the state of South Harrow sidings, but I'd guess that a substantial amount of work would be required to bring them up to current standards in terms of walkways, security etc.

I *think* the last I heard about the possibility of South Harrow being used was in the context of there being timetabled Piccadilly line trains (and then only a couple) stabling there over night, and I'm not aware that ever happened.

[DWS]

Jun 17, 2010 9:42:27 GMT District Dave said:

Jun 17, 2010 9:08:13 GMT Ben said:

Thanks for the info Dave.

So the option of anything at South Harrow has been ruled out, if ever considered?

I have to say I've never heard any mention of anything involving South Harrow - certainly for the District (unless of course the old chestnut of the District reclaiming the Rayners Lane service appears again - as I'm sure it will!).

I can't really comment about the state of South Harrow sidings, but I'd guess that a substantial amount of work would be required to bring them up to current standards in terms of walkways, security etc.

I *think* the last I heard about the possibility of South Harrow being used was in the context of there being timetabled Piccadilly line trains (and then only a couple) stabling there over night, and I'm not aware that ever happened.

4 Piccadilly Line trains start & stable at South Harrow sidings ever day/night

[andypurk]

Jun 16, 2010 19:30:29 GMT tubeprune said:

We know that there will be 13 more trains on the system when the S Stock is all delivered. As they're getting longer trains, they've already lost 13 existing stablng spaces, making 26 required in all. The 13 they lose are: 3 at Farringdon, 5 at Hammersmith, 2 at Triangle, 2 at Edgware Road, 1 at PG. I estimate that they could get 4 more in Neasden, 1 at Uxbridge, 1 more in Barking, 3 at Ealing Common, 3 Upminster, 10 Lillie Bridge, 1 in Moorgate, 1 at Edgware Rd Platform and 2 in Acton Town sidings. Other solutions (and there are others) would probably cost more. Anyone want to offer me odds?

Arn't some of these sidings 'lost' only temporary. For example, the sidings at Farringdon are out of use whilst the station is being rebuilt and expanded.

[District Dave]

Jun 17, 2010 11:40:48 GMT DWS said:

4 Piccadilly Line trains start & stable at South Harrow sidings ever day/night

I'm happy to stand corrected - thank you DWS.

[Deleted]

With Lillie Bridge I wonder how many D stocks will end uo being the wrong way round!

[Dstock7080]

Jun 17, 2010 17:43:17 GMT @monkfish said:

With Lillie Bridge I wonder how many D stocks will end uo being the wrong way round!

Sorry, i can't see how they would get turned by entering from Olympia and exiting via West Ken?

[Deleted]

Jun 17, 2010 12:46:15 GMT andypurk said:

Arn't some of these sidings 'lost' only temporary. For example, the sidings at Farringdon are out of use whilst the station is being rebuilt and expanded.

If they come back into long term use at Farringdon, there will only be 23 and 24 roads after lengthening with 25 abolished, though that road has been out of use for some time now.

[Deleted]

Jun 17, 2010 17:47:39 GMT Dstock7080 said:

Jun 17, 2010 17:43:17 GMT @monkfish said:

With Lillie Bridge I wonder how many D stocks will end uo being the wrong way round!

Sorry, i can't see how they would get turned by entering from Olympia and exiting via West Ken?

Oh yeah!

[andypurk]

Jun 17, 2010 18:10:16 GMT @lnwrelectric said:

Jun 17, 2010 12:46:15 GMT andypurk said:

Arn't some of these sidings 'lost' only temporary. For example, the sidings at Farringdon are out of use whilst the station is being rebuilt and expanded.

If they come back into long term use at Farringdon, there will only be 23 and 24 roads after lengthening with 25 abolished, though that road has been out of use for some time now.

And there would also be space for extra sidings on the formation of the former Thameslink branch, although putting sidings here would cost money.

[tubeprune]

Jun 17, 2010 12:46:15 GMT andypurk said:

Jun 16, 2010 19:30:29 GMT tubeprune said:

We know that there will be 13 more trains on the system when the S Stock is all delivered. As they're getting longer trains, they've already lost 13 existing stablng spaces, making 26 required in all. The 13 they lose are: 3 at Farringdon, 5 at Hammersmith, 2 at Triangle, 2 at Edgware Road, 1 at PG. I estimate that they could get 4 more in Neasden, 1 at Uxbridge, 1 more in Barking, 3 at Ealing Common, 3 Upminster, 10 Lillie Bridge, 1 in Moorgate, 1 at Edgware Rd Platform and 2 in Acton Town sidings. Other solutions (and there are others) would probably cost more. Anyone want to offer me odds?

Arn't some of these sidings 'lost' only temporary. For example, the sidings at Farringdon are out of use whilst the station is being rebuilt and expanded.

The sidings at Farringdon are only long enough for 6-car C Stock length trains and even then they are very tight. They will never get a 7-car S Stock in there unless they do some serious civil engineering.

[uzairjubilee]

Going a bit off topic here, but I really do not think Farringdon sidings are the most flexible sidings, since they can only be entered from the inner platform.

Going back onto topic, I never knew Lillie Bridge depot was accessible from West Kensington or Olympia! Tubeprune's diagram there is really helpful.

[andypurk]

Jun 17, 2010 19:37:44 GMT tubeprune said:

Jun 17, 2010 12:46:15 GMT andypurk said:

Arn't some of these sidings 'lost' only temporary. For example, the sidings at Farringdon are out of use whilst the station is being rebuilt and expanded.

The sidings at Farringdon are only long enough for 6-car C Stock length trains and even then they are very tight. They will never get a 7-car S Stock in there unless they do some serious civil engineering.

And they will have the room to provide sidings on the formation of the former Thameslink tracks. The location seems easier than many of the other proposed sites for the extra length needed, even if is not so convenient for planned services.

[vato]

Jun 17, 2010 18:10:16 GMT @lnwrelectric said:

If they come back into long term use at Farringdon, there will only be 23 and 24 roads after lengthening with 25 abolished, though that road has been out of use for some time now.

I realise this is thread creep, but...

There's a substantial girder structure where the NR lines used to be, the catenary has been removed from the rest of the line to Moorgate, and the weeds are growing tall on the track at Barbican already.

I can't see how the existing sidings can be made long enough for S stock.

Can anyone elaborate on what the actual plans at Farringdon are?

[citysig]

Lillie Bridge has been well documented here as a future stabling point.

Farringdon may be brought back at some point in the precedings with just one siding that is slewed to give extra length.

Edgware Road is likely to be a similar story to Farringdon.
As for platform stabling at Edgware Road, 2 things need to be considered. Firstly, filling all platforms is unwise, because should you encounter problems first thing in the morning, the whole area is lost until the stabled trains can be moved. Secondly, given that the signalling is tied quite tightly to 6-car lengths at present, serious work is going to be needed to allow 7-cars to berth during the normal traffic day - let alone properly berth overnight clear of the through lines.

The ex-Thameslink lines from beyond Farringdon to Moorgate have not been ruled out as being brought into use as sidings (in fact I think the plans are very much alive. On their own they could easily hold 8 or more trains - which pretty much solves the bulk of the stabling overflow.

Amersham Sidings have also been rumoured - but obviously additional security measures are needed to be put in there, to prevent a new paint job being done each night.

Neasden depot is probably out of the question for any "H&C" stabling, as finding room for the "Met" stabling is proving enough of a task. It doesn't look like the Jubilee will be kicked out in the foreseeable future.

[Chris M]

Are there any plans to stable any SSR stock at Ruislip?

[Colin]

Given that Tubelines are loosing part of Lillie Bridge, I would have thought they'd have first dibs on any potential spare capacity at Ruislip seeing as Ruislip is their second home.

So I reckon your suggestion is a non starter Chris.