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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2005 22:06:27 GMT
Just to blow dust off this thread.... Does the Handle(Deadman....TCBC, or whatever its called) have notches for acceleration like in BVE??? Or is it series/parallel, and thats it? - What about braking? I realise this may have been discussed in other threads, but, if anyone has the time (and patience) to explain to a novice like me, what each position on the handle does and is about.....i'd be grateful as i'm doing some work at school on it!! - dont ask!
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Post by setttt on Nov 18, 2005 22:29:01 GMT
Does the Handle(Deadman....TCBC, or whatever its called) have notches for acceleration like in BVE??? Or is it series/parallel, and thats it? - What about braking? The 72T/S, 73T/S, 'C', 'D' and 'A' have 3 power notches, those being Shunt (minimum power), Series (more power) and Parallel (maximum power). On the latter the notches are less noticeable, but are there none the less. Braking notches differ though, with the 'C' and 72T/S having more than the 73T/S & 'D' because they have a Westinghouse Brake as well as an EP Brake. The 'A' stock has a similar setup to the 'C' and 72T/S, but doesn't have the same notches. In general, the further you bring the handle towards the 'Emergency' position, the more brake you are applying. The Westinghouse Brake functions differently however, and is more difficult to explain. To operate the Westinghouse brake, the driver must 'throw' the handle to the 'Lap' position. He then moves it to 'Service Application' to begin braking. The longer the handle is kept in that position, the more braking you get. The newer stocks (92, 95 & 96) are a different kettle of fish, and I'm not sure how they work so to speak. IIRC they have 'infinite' power and braking positions. 'C' stock (same as 72T/S): - www.trainweb.org/districtdave/html/c69_77_stock_13.html'D' stock (same as 73T/S but without 'Shut Down' position): - www.trainweb.org/districtdave/html/d78_stock_0.html73T/S: - seth-rail-pix.fotopic.net/p16522055.htmlI've got a pic of the 'A' stock controller & brake handles which I could probably annotate for you.
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Post by trainopd78 on Nov 18, 2005 22:42:28 GMT
A stock has a self lapping EP brake so has an infinate number of braking positions in EP.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2005 22:55:08 GMT
Basically, to explain in laymens terms, 92/95 and 96 tube stock, can use Rheostatic, Regenerative, or Friction brakes, or a combination of these. The CTBC is part of the arm rest, and the 'red handle' incorparates a deadman through the swivel action of the handle, the CTBC combines both traction and braking. On the 95's and I think the 96's, the CTBC has notches, defining percentages of power and braking, and also 'coast', no braking, no traction. So, push the handle as far as it will go and you get the maximum rate of accelleration and the train will go as fast as possible, pull the handle back and you get the full service brake application; let go of the spring loaded handle and you get an emergency brake. If I can find it, I'll take some scans from my Train Operators Training Module folder, which I used many tiems to refer to when I was being taught all those years ago! Since the Central is now mostly Auto operated, you 'stow' the CTBC, ie, pull it back into the armrest; locking it out of use. It has been known for it to become unlocked when the cab is shut down, resulting in an alarm, 'The Round Train Circuit' sounding in the 'active cab' This means you have a long walk to restow the handle!
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Post by setttt on Nov 18, 2005 22:56:03 GMT
A stock brake controller1. Both the EP and Westinghouse brakes are released. No braking will occur. 2. Move the handle to any point between 1 & 3, and the EP brake is applied. The closer the handle is to 3, the more braking you get. 3. 'Lap' position. The driver 'throws' the handle to this position if he wants to use the Westinghouse brake. 4. 'Service' application. The driver moves the handle to this position from 3 to apply the Westinghouse brake. As mentioned above, the longer the handle is kept in this position, the more braking you get. 5. 'Emergency' application. By moving the handle to this position, the driver causes an emergency application of the Westinghouse Brake. A stock power controller1. In this position, no power is being applied. 2. This position is equivalent to 'Shunt'. Minimal power is being applied. 3. This position is equivalent to 'Series'. More power is being applied. 4. This position is equivalent to 'Parallel'. Maximum power is being applied, and the train will in theory be able to accelerate to its maximum speed.
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Post by Christopher J on Nov 18, 2005 23:36:00 GMT
The newer stocks (92, 95 & 96) are a different kettle of fish, and I'm not sure how they work so to speak. IIRC they have 'infinite' power and braking positions. IIRC the 92/95/96 CTBC has over 200 (For some reason 256 sticks inside my head... but I could but wrong!) braking notches inside it!! Each one gives a little more difference in braking level depending on where you place the CTBC. 2. Move the handle to any point between 1 & 3, and the EP brake is applied. The closer the handle is to 3, the more braking you get. There are 5 EP steps on an A stock Drivers Brake Valve, there are 10psi, 20psi, 30psi, 40psi and 50psi applications. Moving the handle to the 20psi position (for example) will cause the Application Magnet Valves on each car to allow 20psi to enter the brake cylinders on the train. 5. 'Emergency' application. By moving the handle to this position, the driver causes an emergency application of the Westinghouse Brake. Throwing the Handle to Emergency causes both a rapid discharge of the trainline air to cause an emergency Westinghouse Brake application and a maximum EP brake (50psi) application. (if the EP is working of course!)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2005 2:01:14 GMT
To operate the Westinghouse brake, the driver must 'throw' the handle to the 'Lap' position. He then moves it to 'Service Application' to begin braking. The longer the handle is kept in that position, the more braking you get. Quite. When you think you have enough brake you put the handle back to lap and the brakes remain applied at that strength. If you later decide you need more, you give an other "blow" by moving to service application then back to lap. If you apply too much brake, all you can do is release the whole lot and start again - there's no way of only partly releasing a westinghouse application, which is what makes it so damn difficult!
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Nov 19, 2005 13:01:26 GMT
If you apply too much brake, all you can do is release the whole lot and start again - there's no way of only partly releasing a westinghouse application, which is what makes it so damn difficult! Really? I'm sure someone on this site said it was possible to get a partial release. This was in response to a question I asked about 'easing off' to get a smooth stop when using Westinghouse. Now I'm confused - how DO you get a smooth stop with Westinghouse?
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Nov 19, 2005 13:33:29 GMT
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Nov 19, 2005 13:51:34 GMT
(Pleads ignorance) This thread (not the one I was thinking of) was actually written BEFORE I signed up. Hence I have not even seen it, or been aware of its exsitence. Perhaps I should have used the search engine (like I tell everyone else to do : .............or perhaps I should just have used the search engine . Thanks Colin Edit: I've bumped that thread so all the new members can also read it.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2005 17:28:18 GMT
also it seems that in BVE (i dunno how accurate this is) that series can hold a train's speed quite well providing your doing 30 - 40mph Can you change between series and parallel in BVE???
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Nov 19, 2005 17:58:46 GMT
also it seems that in BVE (i dunno how accurate this is) that series can hold a train's speed quite well providing your doing 30 - 40mph Can you change between series and parallel in BVE??? No- positions 1,2 and 3 on BVE refer to (theoretical ) maximum speeds for the simulator and have nothing directly to do with series and parallel. To get a sim to replicate the controls accurately you would be paying thousands of squid, not freeware!!!
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Post by Dmitri on Nov 19, 2005 18:29:22 GMT
I'm sure someone on this site said it was possible to get a partial release. Russian metro stock uses modified Westinghouse brakes that allow partial release (IIRC in the 0.2 atm increments).
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2005 20:55:55 GMT
just a question for you who are in th know, is it a similar system on mainline railways or is it resistor banks and pulses and complex things i'm sure my electronics teacher cna tell me about.
I'm building a properly controllable train for my hornby track... it has working shoegear now! just need a prototypical way of controlling it.
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Nov 19, 2005 21:26:09 GMT
Russian metro stock uses modified Westinghouse brakes that allow partial release (IIRC in the 0.2 atm increments). Thanks a million Dmitri: I was beginning to wonder if my memory was playing tricks (again)..
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Nov 19, 2005 21:38:35 GMT
just a question for you who are in th know, is it a similar system on mainline railways or is it resistor banks and pulses and complex things i'm sure my electronics teacher cna tell me about. I'm building a properly controllable train for my hornby track... it has working shoegear now! just need a prototypical way of controlling it. OK, Jn, you can only have series and parallel if you have two motors to connect together. Assuming your model has only one motor you could certainly TRY to have resistance banks - but where would you put them? As it is you already HAVE a continuous resistance bank - it's called a controller (mounted or hand-held). If you were to put them on the engine/unit itself you would need to control them in the same way a driver does. If you were trying to be ever so clever tho, it may be posssible to fit the loco with some automatic current-limiting device (electronic) so you could whack the controller full open and it would drop the resistance in series with the motor automatically. At its simplest a thermistor might do although I suspect the temperaure range would not be right. Have a word with your electronics teacher: my Physics is OK but my electronics is rusty and out-of-date. And by all means come back to us with any more queries. Moderator comment: we'll move this part to a more sensible category if the model aspect continues
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2005 16:51:12 GMT
I went on the Jub and Central today and was staggered at how fast the things went out the stations!
Nearly made me fall over!
Would they whack it straight into Parallel from Rheo1 (or the equivalent) to make it go this fast from stationary?
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Nov 20, 2005 19:28:50 GMT
The Central is automated, and I used the Jubilee today - it didn't seem particularly fast on the two trains I used.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2005 19:31:15 GMT
Well, i guess it felt fast to me cos i havent used it for a while......
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