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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2011 13:35:28 GMT
Hi, I've been talking to a few of my friends about this, and we all seem to get confused about the same thing; why isn't the District Line split into two different lines? Personally, I get a little confused about where my train is going on this District Line, same with the DLR because the lines aren't designated by colour. Wouldn't it be better to have say, the Olympia Line between Edgware Road and Wimbledon (including the Olympia curve) to help tourists and visitors differentiate this route from the Barking etc section? I would also welcome some kind of route/line differentiation on the DLR.. Thanks! PS; first post, so hello  |
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castlebar
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Post by castlebar on Aug 4, 2011 13:44:54 GMT
Hi Matt
One idea l heard was to run trains from Ealing around the Circle anti-clockwise back to Ealing. (ditto Richmond-Ricmond). Trains from Upminster to run around the circle clockwise back to Upminster. The more l think of that it could be useful "outside the box" thinking. Upminster - Ealing peak hour extras. You wouldn't need a circle line at all then, except as a supplement. Wimb stock runs to Edgware Road, with High St to Olympia extras. Let's discuss
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2011 14:15:19 GMT
This has merits because the H&C was part of the Met but I can't remember exactly when the change happened? My recollection for the change was partly down to the final demise of O and P stock, once ubititous throughout the subsurface network from Upminster to Uxbridge. This was also influenced by the arrival of the C76 batch for Edgware Rd - Wimbledon group by which time the internal route maps showed two different Metropolitan networks, the H&C on one, Metroland routes on the other, apart from the brief interregnum when the ELL had its own sub-fleet.
But I digress; to my mind the bigger issue is how best to serve Olympia from Central London, given LULs belief that Overground and bustitution is adequate for most of the time. Hmmm..
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Post by Dstock7080 on Aug 4, 2011 15:55:44 GMT
Hi, I've been talking to a few of my friends about this, and we all seem to get confused about the same thing; why isn't the District Line split into two different lines? Personally, I get a little confused about where my train is going on this District Line, same with the DLR because the lines aren't designated by colour. Wouldn't it be better to have say, the Olympia Line between Edgware Road and Wimbledon (including the Olympia curve) to help tourists and visitors differentiate this route from the Barking etc section? I would also welcome some kind of route/line differentiation on the DLR.. Thanks! PS; first post, so hello I can see your point, as District services are self contained off-peak: Ealing-Tower Hill ]- Wimbledon-Upminster]- (these to be swapped from Dec.) Richmond-Upminster Wimbledon-Edgware Road How does anyone following the green line on the map know this?? Why not adopt a New York style: 4,5,6 routing numbers to termini ? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2011 16:56:26 GMT
Do you also get confused as to if a Piccadilly line train is going to Heathrow or Rayners Lane? Out of interest
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Post by Hassaan on Aug 4, 2011 17:32:29 GMT
Hi, I've been talking to a few of my friends about this, and we all seem to get confused about the same thing; why isn't the District Line split into two different lines? Personally, I get a little confused about where my train is going on this District Line, same with the DLR because the lines aren't designated by colour. Wouldn't it be better to have say, the Olympia Line between Edgware Road and Wimbledon (including the Olympia curve) to help tourists and visitors differentiate this route from the Barking etc section? I would also welcome some kind of route/line differentiation on the DLR.. Thanks! PS; first post, so hello I can see your point, as District services are self contained off-peak: Ealing-Tower Hill ]- Wimbledon-Upminster]- (these to be swapped from Dec.) Richmond-Upminster Wimbledon-Edgware Road How does anyone following the green line on the map know this?? Why not adopt a New York style: 4,5,6 routing numbers to termini ? What happened to the destination blind/DMI?  ;D |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2011 18:28:27 GMT
No, of course I don't get confused on the Piccadilly Line; that's just silly. The District Line is a lot more complex, with several routes, as is the DLR. I get stopped by tourists almost daily asking for directions and queries about the underground, and sometimes even I can't answer. In such an international city, I just feel that a little more clarity could be provided very easily, and I think that it's sorely needed.
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Post by phillw48 on Aug 4, 2011 18:33:11 GMT
As the 'D' stock has now been refurbished and has the neccessary destination information displayed in each car I don't see the problem.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2011 20:44:02 GMT
I think it would be useful to identify District services via High St Ken differently from those via South Ken, as different 'lines' (and similarly Northern line via City & West End should be distinguished)
One of the issues is what is a 'line' - is it a management unit, a route, a single service or a service group? And then if its not a single service, then how do you identify the different variations, in terms that people can readily comprehend?
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Aug 4, 2011 21:19:38 GMT
This thread is treading dangerously close the proposals & suggestions area - in fact I'm also sure we've been here at least twice before with this subject...
Anyway, if you want proper distinction - effectively two separate lines if you will - east of Earls Court, you'll also need to fundamentally change the timetable; at the start and end of the day, and during both peak shoulders, quite a number of extra trains go to High Street Ken on their way to or from Ealing Common depot.
If you want trains to High Street completely separate from those that go to South Ken, this practice would have to change. Where will you now reverse these trains? How will you populate the westbound service west of Earls Court first thing in the morning? How will you clear the west end of the line late at night once the last Eastbound has gone through central London?
You can't then run these trains to High Street as you've branded it for a different service/line.....unless you are happy to confuse your customers further...
The problem at the likes of Earls Court is quite simple. It was simple when I last worked there 6 years ago and it's always been the same. Signage. Well, a lack of it.
Someone in a wheelchair got off the leading car of my westbound train today. Where's the sign that says "step free exit this way"? Exactly!! Earls Court has always had very poor signage, but this wasn't the only example whilst I was waiting for the green signal. "Where can I find the exhibition centre?" was the next question. The poor bloke didn't know he'd actually walked the right way down the platform nor could he see the only sign which is above the stairs at the west end of the platform - above as in you can only see it when you stand right in front/under it - it cannot be seen from the middle of the platform!!.
Information provision has always been LU's weak point and that's where we really need to up our game big style.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2011 9:32:52 GMT
I think it would be useful to identify District services via High St Ken differently from those via South Ken, as different 'lines' (and similarly Northern line via City & West End should be distinguished) One of the issues is what is a 'line' - is it a management unit, a route, a single service or a service group? And then if its not a single service, then how do you identify the different variations, in terms that people can readily comprehend? It's pretty simple to distinguish northern line trains as they say 'via Bank' etc on the front |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2011 10:25:37 GMT
It's just as easy to distinguish Districts - if they say Edgware Road or High Street Ken on the front they don't go to Gloucester Road, not more complicated than that really.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2011 14:40:14 GMT
The issue with saying that is to what extent should passengers - not familiar with the system - be expected to know where they are NOT going. And how where they want to go relates to what information is on signs, indicators, etc.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2011 15:45:03 GMT
Actually, I'm with Coline here. The most asked question I get is "Is this train going via Victoria", so perhaps via Victoria could be added to relevant Eastbound Train Displays at the side and platform indicators? At present you have to tell the passengers to look for an Upminster, Barking, Dagenham, Tower Hill, Mansion House train, unless you are lucky enough to have one in the platform.
Shame that the term via The City is frowned upon!
Edgware Road branch is simpler to explain though!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2011 15:52:53 GMT
I'm sure 'Eastbound via City' would be much simpler for people to understand, instead of having to remember if Upminster, Barking, Dagenham, Tower Hill, Plaistow etc are in the east of the west.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Aug 5, 2011 16:13:44 GMT
As the 'D' stock has now been refurbished and has the neccessary destination information displayed in each car I don't see the problem. Unfortunately, these don't help the off-peak passengers of Ealing, Acton and Chiswick who are looking at the platform bifurcation board with a straight green line to Upminster - then watch as all trains through these stations between 10-4 all say "Tower Hill". How do they find an Upminster train? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2011 19:25:39 GMT
I'm sure 'Eastbound via City' would be much simpler for people to understand, instead of having to remember if Upminster, Barking, Dagenham, Tower Hill, Plaistow etc are in the east of the west. One of these days they'll start running Wimbledon - Edgware Road - Liverpool Street - Barking ;D |
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Post by t697 on Aug 5, 2011 19:28:52 GMT
Someone has suggested Wimbledon to Wimbledon via clockwise or anti-clockwise a while ago. Quite tricky to describe if we had to put that on to the S stock CIS....
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Post by Hassaan on Aug 5, 2011 19:33:41 GMT
Unfortunately, these don't help the off-peak passengers of Ealing, Acton and Chiswick who are looking at the platform bifurcation board with a straight green line to Upminster - then watch as all trains through these stations between 10-4 all say "Tower Hill". How do they find an Upminster train? If only they used a bit of common sense (  ) and took the first train and changed later. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2011 22:08:36 GMT
Someone has suggested Wimbledon to Wimbledon via clockwise or anti-clockwise a while ago. Quite tricky to describe if we had to put that on to the S stock CIS.... Couldn't 'via' announcements be used like on the Circle line until a few stations from the terminus? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2011 22:14:20 GMT
As the 'D' stock has now been refurbished and has the neccessary destination information displayed in each car I don't see the problem. Unfortunately, these don't help the off-peak passengers of Ealing, Acton and Chiswick who are looking at the platform bifurcation board with a straight green line to Upminster - then watch as all trains through these stations between 10-4 all say "Tower Hill". How do they find an Upminster train? I suppose signs could be put up (like at Stratford DLR) advising that if trains aren't going further than, for example, Tower Hill, board one and change where necessary. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2011 20:40:09 GMT
It's not just LU that have problems with signage. At King's Cross NR station, there's a sign to the deep level LU lines which lists 'City' in the list of lines, despite there not being a line called solely that!
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Post by chrisvandenkieboom on Sept 21, 2011 16:07:08 GMT
It's not just LU that have problems with signage. At King's Cross NR station, there's a sign to the deep level LU lines which lists 'City' in the list of lines, despite there not being a line called solely that! City is a proposed name for the split up Bank branch - NR is just looking forward... |
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Post by metrailway on Sept 21, 2011 18:32:28 GMT
Unfortunately, these don't help the off-peak passengers of Ealing, Acton and Chiswick who are looking at the platform bifurcation board with a straight green line to Upminster - then watch as all trains through these stations between 10-4 all say "Tower Hill". How do they find an Upminster train? I suppose signs could be put up (like at Stratford DLR) advising that if trains aren't going further than, for example, Tower Hill, board one and change where necessary. Yeah this is probably the best solution. IIRC on the Met, the line diagrams at Wembley Park, Preston Road, and Northwick Park state something like "If no through train is indicated change at Harrow on the Hill" If lightboxes were still favoured, I would design one which would lit up stating: TOWER HILL
CHANGE FOR UPMINSTER Just like the classic ones at Harrow on the Hill which state: AMERSHAM
CHANGE FOR AYLESBURY |
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Post by superteacher on Sept 21, 2011 19:27:07 GMT
You could argue that similar situations arise across much of the system. Off peak, it isn't possible to go from the Central line's Ruislip branch to the Hainault branch, and vice versa. You can't get from the Charing Cross branch to Morden on the Northern line off peak. Currently, although not for much longer, you can't go past Baker Street off peak on the Met from the Amersham line.
If you had signage to cover every such eventuality, you'd have more signs than you could cope with!
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Post by alfie on Sept 21, 2011 20:11:03 GMT
Should be Obvious you can from the map!! OR, just ASK someone? Gosh.
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SE13
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Post by SE13 on Sept 21, 2011 20:44:17 GMT
It's not just LU that have problems with signage. At King's Cross NR station, there's a sign to the deep level LU lines which lists 'City' in the list of lines, despite there not being a line called solely that! City is a proposed name for the split up Bank branch - NR is just looking forward... City is precisely that though. We all know what it means, it can't be that hard to work out surely? Or perhaps I've been infected with some disease called common sense? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2011 21:24:27 GMT
Or perhaps I've been infected with some disease called common sense? You have in spades SE13, but the more society as a whole assumes that nobody has any, the quicker we'll get to a human race incapable of individual thought, at which point nobody will be able to get the top off a boiled egg without being laboriously instructed let alone read a simple map. If it wasn't so sad it'd be funny. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2011 8:49:09 GMT
City is a proposed name for the split up Bank branch - NR is just looking forward... City is precisely that though. We all know what it means, it can't be that hard to work out surely? Or perhaps I've been infected with some disease called common sense? Tourists don't, do they? Also, you'd be surprised how many Londoners I've had to explain the tube map to. I think we're liable to assume that everyone has the same level of interest/knowledge as us. If there isn't yet a tube line or branch called 'City', it seems unwise to have a sign pointing towards it, especially at a main line terminus. If I've got a deficit of common sense, then I apologise, but I don't really understand the rationale for a sign for something that doesn't exist. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Sept 22, 2011 11:02:59 GMT
I think it would be useful to identify District services via High St Ken differently from those via South Ken, I'm fairly sure that at Wimbledon you get "next City train" and "next Edgware Road train" indicated City is a proposed name for the split up Bank branch - NR is just looking forward... .....which is a recipe for confusion, as two other lines have "and City" in their names. I have heard traffic news reporters refer to the Hammersmith and City lines (plural). They often seem to have a very hazy knowledge of London's geography ("Southend to Victoria on Great Eastern" was a classic, as was failing to mention which Apex Corner they meant (the one on the A1 or the one on the A4?). |
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;D
) and took the first train and changed later. 
