class411
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Post by class411 on Sept 15, 2012 11:04:29 GMT
Looking at the 'Cracks in bogies' thread in the Met forum it appears (as far as I can make out) as if there will be a further delay in the introduction of S stock on the H&C as trains waiting delivery are sent, temporarily, to the Met. (I hope I've got that wrong.)
Can anyone remember when S stock was originally supposed to be introduced on the H&C? I don't have any evidence but I seem to remember it has been put back at least twice, and not by short amounts in either case.
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Post by snoggle on Sept 15, 2012 13:11:21 GMT
Looking at the 'Cracks in bogies' thread in the Met forum it appears (as far as I can make out) as if there will be a further delay in the introduction of S stock on the H&C as trains waiting delivery are sent, temporarily, to the Met. (I hope I've got that wrong.) Can anyone remember when S stock was originally supposed to be introduced on the H&C? I don't have any evidence but I seem to remember it has been put back at least twice, and not by short amounts in either case. There is information on the various aspects of S8, S7 and SSL resignalling and project milestones / progress in the latest TfL investment report. www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/corporate/Part-1-Item07-Operational-and-Financial-Peformance-and-Investment-Programme-Reports.pdf |
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Post by metrailway on Sept 15, 2012 14:16:52 GMT
I think that most S Stocks were intended to be running on the Met in 2009 and on the H&C in 2010.
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class411
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Post by class411 on Sept 15, 2012 14:45:05 GMT
I think that most S Stocks were intended to be running on the Met in 2009 and on the H&C in 2010. That is roughly what I remembered. It just seemed that each time I saw anything on the subject it was a year later. There's nothing very specific about when there will be a significant number in service in the report mentioned above but, as far as I can make out, it looks very unlikely that there will be more than a few before mid 2013. |
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Post by citysig on Sept 17, 2012 22:31:16 GMT
From where I sit, the number of S7s in service is more or less at the predicted level.
I can understand the confusion, given that some targets were "re-adjusted" to accommodate the Olympics (originally, it was planned to "pause" the Met deliveries and get a few S7s running for the Olympics, but this was changed).
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class411
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Post by class411 on Sept 18, 2012 10:58:43 GMT
From where I sit, the number of S7s in service is more or less at the predicted level. I can understand the confusion, given that some targets were "re-adjusted" to accommodate the Olympics (originally, it was planned to "pause" the Met deliveries and get a few S7s running for the Olympics, but this was changed). Thanks for that, but I'm still none the wiser as to when we are likely to stand a chance of seeing these in service. I gather they were delivering the Met stock at the rate of one a week. Are there any dates and rates for introducing the S stock on the H&C? '2012' could mean they start in January and are virtually complete by the end of the year or that they start in December and are still only dribbling in during most of 2013. I would have thought that LU (and a fair few of their staff) would have some more definite idea as to when there will be a significant number of these in service. Although LU have a long way to go to beat BR. They first showed a mockup of the stock that was going to replace the long haul slam door stock on Victoria station in the early eighties and the Electrostars weren't introduced until the next century! |
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Post by Deep Level on Sept 18, 2012 11:44:57 GMT
3 S7+1's will be delivered to Neasden to cover 3 that will be out of service at any one time to return to Derby until all 30 that need updating are done. They will then have their spare cars removed and will go into service on the H&C and the spare cars will be slotted into the correct trains so either an S7-1 will be delivered and the cars attached at Neasden or the last 3 S8's to go back to Derby will go as S8+1's, either way it will be a rare sighting  . There are currently 5 S7's and one S7+1 on the Test Track so I'm not sure if the 5 S7's that were built first will come down before the S7+1 or if the S7+1 will come down with the next 2 before the other S7's and the S7's delivered after the S8 upgrades. |
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class411
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Post by class411 on Sept 18, 2012 12:30:14 GMT
3 S7+1's will be delivered to Neasden to cover 3 that will be out of service at any one time to return to Derby until all 30 that need updating are done. They will then have their spare cars removed and will go into service on the H&C and the spare cars will be slotted into the correct trains so either an S7-1 will be delivered and the cars attached at Neasden or the last 3 S8's to go back to Derby will go as S8+1's, either way it will be a rare sighting . There are currently 5 S7's and one S7+1 on the Test Track so I'm not sure if the 5 S7's that were built first will come down before the S7+1 or if the S7+1 will come down with the next 2 before the other S7's and the S7's delivered after the S8 upgrades. Hmm, yes, lots of technical information there but virtually none of it enables me to answer my question. Does anyone know when the S7 stock will start to be introduced on the H&C line at a significant rate? From the above posts I gather that there is little, if any, running on there at the moment. When are they going to start regular deliveries to the H&C and at what rate will these deliveries take place? For example, one a week starting at the beginning of October (which is already a delay from the "proper deliveries will start as soon as the Olympics are over story that was promulgated before said Olympics), would mean that, by the new year, you would almost certainly see one - assuming you kept your eyes open - on a journey from Hammersmith to Paddington. Whereas "well, you might get a couple before Christmas" would mean that you almost certainly would not. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2012 17:19:44 GMT
its lu and dates for these things are often fluid as problems arise- no one foresaw returning s8s on a grand scale to derby and therefore someone has come up with a plan to mitigate for this as a result original dates for s7s would be changed operational staff wouldnt necessarily be informed of this as it doesnt really impact on thier day to day jobs. i wouldnt get too worried as to when s7s arrive it'll start as a trickle and before you know it the c stock will be history- prehaps the jamacian addage may be fitting here- they'll soon come
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2012 20:21:39 GMT
3 S7+1's will be delivered to Neasden to cover 3 that will be out of service at any one time to return to Derby until all 30 that need updating are done. They will then have their spare cars removed and will go into service on the H&C and the spare cars will be slotted into the correct trains so either an S7-1 will be delivered and the cars attached at Neasden or the last 3 S8's to go back to Derby will go as S8+1's, either way it will be a rare sighting . There are currently 5 S7's and one S7+1 on the Test Track so I'm not sure if the 5 S7's that were built first will come down before the S7+1 or if the S7+1 will come down with the next 2 before the other S7's and the S7's delivered after the S8 upgrades. Does this remind older readers of the 1959/62 trains?? - originally the 1959's meant for the Piccadilly first got delivered to the Central (with an extra motor car in them), to help out with the Central's ageing Standard stock trains. When the official 1962 trains started arriving onto the Central, the 1959's (less the extra motor car) got returned to the Piccadilly line. (The extra motor car being left on the Central and then inserted into the 1962 trains.) |
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Post by snoggle on Sept 27, 2012 12:54:57 GMT
3 S7+1's will be delivered to Neasden to cover 3 that will be out of service at any one time to return to Derby until all 30 that need updating are done. They will then have their spare cars removed and will go into service on the H&C and the spare cars will be slotted into the correct trains so either an S7-1 will be delivered and the cars attached at Neasden or the last 3 S8's to go back to Derby will go as S8+1's, either way it will be a rare sighting . There are currently 5 S7's and one S7+1 on the Test Track so I'm not sure if the 5 S7's that were built first will come down before the S7+1 or if the S7+1 will come down with the next 2 before the other S7's and the S7's delivered after the S8 upgrades. Hmm, yes, lots of technical information there but virtually none of it enables me to answer my question. Does anyone know when the S7 stock will start to be introduced on the H&C line at a significant rate? From the above posts I gather that there is little, if any, running on there at the moment. When are they going to start regular deliveries to the H&C and at what rate will these deliveries take place? For example, one a week starting at the beginning of October (which is already a delay from the "proper deliveries will start as soon as the Olympics are over story that was promulgated before said Olympics), would mean that, by the new year, you would almost certainly see one - assuming you kept your eyes open - on a journey from Hammersmith to Paddington. Whereas "well, you might get a couple before Christmas" would mean that you almost certainly would not. Perhaps you could simply approach LU directly and ask them for an answer to your questions? Alternatively ask one of the London Assembly Members to ask a "Mayor's Question" on the subject but couched in less "enthusiast" terms. It seems clear that members of the Sub Surface project team with responsibility for the S7s either do not reside here or are not permitted to reveal details of the project programme on a public forum. Even so I am slightly bemused as to why you seem quite so impatient and indignant - it is not as if the C Stock is falling to bits causing the H&C services to be unreliable. The S7s will be here soon enough and then be around for decades. |
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class411
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Post by class411 on Sept 27, 2012 13:10:32 GMT
Perhaps you could simply approach LU directly and ask them for an answer to your questions? Alternatively ask one of the London Assembly Members to ask a "Mayor's Question" on the subject but couched in less "enthusiast" terms. It seems clear that members of the Sub Surface project team with responsibility for the S7s either do not reside here or are not permitted to reveal details of the project programme on a public forum. Even so I am slightly bemused as to why you seem quite so impatient and indignant - it is not as if the C Stock is falling to bits causing the H&C services to be unreliable. The S7s will be here soon enough and then be around for decades. My apologies if I've offended you. It was just that with so much evident knowledge shown here, often to a very intricate level, about the workings of LU, I thought someone might be able to answer the question. You are correct; it is not of any great importance. Then again, that applies to most of what goes on here, and on virtually every other forum, for that matter. Once again, sorry that my interest seems to have offended you. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2012 16:02:11 GMT
Does anyone know when the S7 stock will start to be introduced on the H&C line at a significant rate?
"They can not start until the new timetable starts in December as most train work both the H&C & Circle at the moment"
From the above posts I gather that there is little, if any, running on there at the moment.
"T700 runs everyday of the week when there is no Eng/Wk as it is the only way to train drivers at the moment."
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2012 20:07:47 GMT
T700 was running today seen in moorgate platform 3 at around 15.00, forgot the number of the unit but its good to see that there are some S7's out and about.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2012 20:21:37 GMT
Perhaps you could simply approach LU directly and ask them for an answer to your questions? Alternatively ask one of the London Assembly Members to ask a "Mayor's Question" on the subject but couched in less "enthusiast" terms. It seems clear that members of the Sub Surface project team with responsibility for the S7s either do not reside here or are not permitted to reveal details of the project programme on a public forum. Even so I am slightly bemused as to why you seem quite so impatient and indignant - it is not as if the C Stock is falling to bits causing the H&C services to be unreliable. The S7s will be here soon enough and then be around for decades. My apologies if I've offended you. It was just that with so much evident knowledge shown here, often to a very intricate level, about the workings of LU, I thought someone might be able to answer the question. You are correct; it is not of any great importance. Then again, that applies to most of what goes on here, and on virtually every other forum, for that matter. Once again, sorry that my interest seems to have offended you. I don't think you have anything to apologise for. The C stock is the bench mark of cr@piness. There are many on LU who will be happy to see the back of them ASAP, not to mention the travelling public. |
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Post by citysig on Sept 27, 2012 20:36:37 GMT
Does anyone know when the S7 stock will start to be introduced on the H&C line at a significant rate? "They can not start until the new timetable starts in December as most train work both the H&C & Circle at the moment" The current timetable (and indeed the "revised" timetable from December - which is more or less the same as the current one) were built around the fact that H&C and Circle services are separated. This is to allow an S7 to be put to work on the H&C and not get involved with the Circle. The delays, as I understand it, surround the issues with the S8s, the small number of H&C drivers trained-up, and the fact that the H&C is not quite ready to host the trains at the east end of the line. |
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kabsonline
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Post by kabsonline on Sept 27, 2012 20:54:17 GMT
Has any S7s been in passenger service yet between Moorgate and Barking because I'm I read that T700 was now sometimes venturing beyond Moorgate in the eastbound direction? |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Sept 27, 2012 21:23:32 GMT
Has any S7s been in passenger service yet between Moorgate and Barking because I'm I read that T700 was now sometimes venturing beyond Moorgate in the eastbound direction? No, S7s are not yet able to run beyond Moorgate in passenger service, i am not aware of any venturing to Aldgate either. |
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Post by citysig on Sept 28, 2012 19:44:00 GMT
The S7s are not even allowed to run empty beyond Moorgate eastbound, despite the fact that the trains are virtually the same as S8s, and will have operators who are qualified to drive between Moorgate and, say Aldgate.
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Sept 30, 2012 8:19:35 GMT
My apologies if I've offended you. It was just that with so much evident knowledge shown here, often to a very intricate level, about the workings of LU, I thought someone might be able to answer the question. You are correct; it is not of any great importance. Then again, that applies to most of what goes on here, and on virtually every other forum, for that matter. Once again, sorry that my interest seems to have offended you. I don't think you have anything to apologise for. The C stock is the bench mark of cr@piness. There are many on LU who will be happy to see the back of them ASAP, not to mention the travelling public. As most of you will know I do not post very much here any more for reasons explained elsewhere. However December will see more S7's rolling out. We have 5 S7's in London and one S7+1. The 3 S7+1's will indeed supplement the S8 fleet whilst we return 37 units to Derby for 'under warranty' modifications and fit out for ATC. Finally (you know I'm not going to let it go!) the 'C' Stock are the work horse of the Sub Surface Railway and do a fantastic job of moving large numbers of customers. With their 4 double doors per side they swallow up entire platforms whilst larger trains leave passengers behind. Following refurb they allow large numbers of standing passengers, and for in town working they cannot be beaten for their fast pull away and last minute braking. You don't have to like them but you cannot deny that as a train they do the job they were designed (and redesigned) to do amazingly well. As a driver they are a challenge to drive too, although I will admit not always for the right reasons! I will be sad to see them go and am not the only one in LU who agrees. |
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class411
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Post by class411 on Sept 30, 2012 9:34:19 GMT
As most of you will know I do not post very much here any more for reasons explained elsewhere. However December will see more S7's rolling out. We have 5 S7's in London and one S7+1. The 3 S7+1's will indeed supplement the S8 fleet whilst we return 37 units to Derby for 'under warranty' modifications and fit out for ATC. Finally (you know I'm not going to let it go!) the 'C' Stock are the work horse of the Sub Surface Railway and do a fantastic job of moving large numbers of customers. With their 4 double doors per side they swallow up entire platforms whilst larger trains leave passengers behind. Following refurb they allow large numbers of standing passengers, and for in town working they cannot be beaten for their fast pull away and last minute braking. You don't have to like them but you cannot deny that as a train they do the job they were designed (and redesigned) to do amazingly well. As a driver they are a challenge to drive too, although I will admit not always for the right reasons! I will be sad to see them go and am not the only one in LU who agrees. My interest in the timing of the arrival of the S7's is not because of any dislike of the C Stock. They're comfortable, spacious, and do the job. I dare say I'll miss them when they've gone just as I wish I could once again see and use all the LU stock that I have observed and travelled on over the last 55 years. It's just that having been told from somewhere in 2011 that they would be introduced in mid 2012 (already put back more than once), it's been a little (and I mean a little) disappointing to look out for them on every visit to London and not see a single H&C example. (And I'm particularly looking forward to getting on an empty train at Hammersmith and being able to see all the way to the front.) At least now I know that there will be no point looking out for them on the next few visits. The only stock I will be glad to see the back of is the D stock which, since it's last refurbishment, has been uncomfortable for anyone over 6' tall. (And it must be hell for the overweight.) |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Sept 30, 2012 10:40:44 GMT
Why not time your visits to intercept T700 which is an S7 working on the H&C and should run Mon-Sat (times posted on this Forum).
I'm sure prjb will defend that the S7 introduction has not been delayed and the whole SSR stock replacement is continuing close to schedule.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2012 12:55:31 GMT
As most of you will know I do not post very much here any more for reasons explained elsewhere. However December will see more S7's rolling out. We have 5 S7's in London and one S7+1. The 3 S7+1's will indeed supplement the S8 fleet whilst we return 37 units to Derby for 'under warranty' modifications and fit out for ATC. Finally (you know I'm not going to let it go!) the 'C' Stock are the work horse of the Sub Surface Railway and do a fantastic job of moving large numbers of customers. With their 4 double doors per side they swallow up entire platforms whilst larger trains leave passengers behind. Following refurb they allow large numbers of standing passengers, and for in town working they cannot be beaten for their fast pull away and last minute braking. You don't have to like them but you cannot deny that as a train they do the job they were designed (and redesigned) to do amazingly well. As a driver they are a challenge to drive too, although I will admit not always for the right reasons! I will be sad to see them go and am not the only one in LU who agrees. The only stock I will be glad to see the back of is the D stock which, since it's last refurbishment, has been uncomfortable for anyone over 6' tall. (And it must be hell for the overweight.) Hi, Interesting. I am an inch from being over six foot tall, I love the D stock and loathe the the C stock. I will let a C stock go and wait for a D. The D stock is much better ventilated, quieter, better riding, smoother braking and acceleration, better lighting, more roomy, more cheerful decor, nicer door chimes, in car displays. |
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class411
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Post by class411 on Sept 30, 2012 15:02:21 GMT
Interesting. I am an inch from being over six foot tall, I love the D stock and loathe the the C stock. I will let a C stock go and wait for a D. The D stock is much better ventilated, quieter, better riding, smoother braking and acceleration, better lighting, more roomy, more cheerful decor, nicer door chimes, in car displays. I'm 6'2" and was perfectly happy with the D stock until the last refurbishment. I have no problem with D stock apart from the narrowness of the seats. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2012 19:51:17 GMT
ooh some rather raw nerves touched here but have to say having driven A C and D stocks the Ds for me are far and away the best reliable comfortable well designed a fab train
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2012 20:34:31 GMT
Interesting. I am an inch from being over six foot tall, I love the D stock and loathe the the C stock. I will let a C stock go and wait for a D. The D stock is much better ventilated, quieter, better riding, smoother braking and acceleration, better lighting, more roomy, more cheerful decor, nicer door chimes, in car displays. I'm 6'2" and was perfectly happy with the D stock until the last refurbishment. I have no problem with D stock apart from the narrowness of the seats. You were the one to say regarding the C stock "They're comfortable, spacious, and do the job." ;D and "The only stock I will be glad to see the back of is the D stock. The C stock have never been a very satifactory train, even from new. It is one stock I will not miss. The A stock bounced you about, but it did it in a likable way to an accomaniment of pleasent sounds and it had openable windows. On the other hand, the jerky, snatchy, vibrating, unplesent vacum cleaner sound and lack of air of a C stock is just dam horrible. |
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metman
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Post by metman on Sept 30, 2012 21:29:44 GMT
I agree with you PRJB. They do the job they were designed to do and the referb was an excellent use of their space. I'll miss them as I use'd to spend many a time on them in the early 2000s on the H&C! The S7s will really help the H&C lines but sadly are dull trains!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2012 22:04:20 GMT
I agree with you PRJB. They do the job they were designed to do and the referb was an excellent use of their space. I'll miss them as I use'd to spend many a time on them in the early 2000s on the H&C! The S7s will really help the H&C lines but sadly are dull trains! The C stock does not excel in anything and has always been at the bottom of the pile by a long margin. The refurb done the C stock was not that great and caused a lot of problems with them. The only thing going for them is their Westinghouse. The S7s will be dull, but they will be much nicer for staff and the public. There was a bigger step into dullness with the arrival of the A stock onto the Met in 1960-62. |
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Post by DrOne on Sept 30, 2012 22:15:35 GMT
Hi, Interesting. I am an inch from being over six foot tall, I love the D stock and loathe the the C stock. I will let a C stock go and wait for a D. The D stock is much better ventilated, quieter, better riding, smoother braking and acceleration, better lighting, more roomy, more cheerful decor, nicer door chimes, in car displays. Agreed. As metro stock goes, the D's are a class apart. Love 'em. Slightly sad that the Distinction they give the District will eventually be blended into a near-uniform SSL stock. |
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Sept 30, 2012 22:24:03 GMT
This thread is leaving me a little torn! Clearly I will have nothing negative said about 'C' Stock but I was the operational manager responsible for the 'D' Stock refurb. That was a good project and saw operations and some brilliant LU Engineers working together with Bombardier to produce, what I think is, the best refurb project LU has ever managed to pull off. 'D' Stock is the only train that ever truly managed to look like a brand new train. The cab wasn't perfect but we had to work with what we had.
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The current timetable (and indeed the "revised" timetable from December - which is more or less the same as the current one) were built around the fact that H&C and Circle services are separated. This is to allow an S7 to be put to work on the H&C and not get involved with the Circle.
