SSR 750v Voltage Upgrade

[philthetube]

Oct 19, 2016 12:57:07 GMT stapler said:

How do they get to a third capacity increase? Surely the signalling upgrade wd be responsible for most of that?
Could the same be applied to the tube lines?

Both are needed and the increase could not happen until both are done.

[Dstock7080]

Oct 21, 2016 15:35:14 GMT @dy444 said:

Apr 5, 2015 10:42:04 GMT @notatraindriver said:

As far as I'm aware class 444s are already restricted in power which is why they may not be restricted the way 450s and 458s are.

I'd always thought it was because the maximum length 444 formation (10 cars) only had 4 motor coaches whereas the maximum length 450 (12 cars) and 458 (8 cars) had 6 motor coaches (450s 2 per set, 458s 3 per set)

This morning i was passed by two 10-car cl.458 and one 10-car cl.455/456 combination operating via East Putney

[spsmiler]

Oct 19, 2016 8:58:11 GMT Dstock7080 said:

Some information today:

The Four Lines Modernisation (4LM) programme has delivered a first for London Underground (LU).
For the first time on our network, the Metropolitan Line, north of Harrow to Amersham, Watford and Chesham, now operate at 750v. Previously it had operated at 630v like the rest of the network.
Senior Project Manager said: “Switching on the 750v traction power on this part of the Metropolitan Line is a massive achievement as it will enable us to reduce energy consumption and increase the number of trains per hour to 32 once the new signalling upgrade is complete.”
This section of the Metropolitan Line can now operate regenerative braking too. Regenerative braking uses a converter on the train to recycle the energy generated in the braking process so that it can be delivered back to the conductor rail for the next train to use. It will create impressive energy savings, reduce the carbon footprint and maintenance, and increase rolling stock performance.

Lead Project Engineer, said: “This is the single biggest event in LU direct current power history in more than 40 years.”

To migrate from 630v to 750v, a significant amount of work was completed, including reconfiguring the substation transformers. We also needed to ensure the current online relays, fault detection, tunnel lighting systems, passenger trains and engineering trains were compatible with the higher voltage. The mechanism that tells the train to open its doors was also changed.
These enabling works will allow the Sub Surface Lines (SSL) to increase capacity by a third by 2023, which equates to tens of thousands more customers each hour.
The team will migrate further areas of the SSL track to 750v over the next year.

How is this arranged? With 630v the third rail is +420v whilst the fourth rail is -210v.

Is the new arrangement +500v / -250v or is it something else?

Thanks

Simon

[t697]

Yes approx. +500V / -250V.

[roythebus]

The outer sections of the Met used to use a higher voltage in winter to heat the conductor rails in an attempt to prevent the rails from icing up.

[spsmiler]

Nov 8, 2016 19:47:19 GMT t697 said:

Yes approx. +500V / -250V.

Thanks.

Simon

[Deleted]

Oct 19, 2016 21:38:31 GMT philthetube said:

Oct 19, 2016 8:58:11 GMT Dstock7080 said:

Some information today:

what tunnel lighting?  I don't think the north curve has any.

I'm guessing the tunnel to West Harrow.

[t697]

West Harrow route is not in the 750V conversion and I'm pretty sure doesn't have 'tunnel' lighting. I think the reference was to scope of work right across the Sub-Surface Railway, not the north Met line exclusively.

[gw43125]

Oct 21, 2016 16:11:19 GMT Dstock7080 said:

Oct 21, 2016 15:35:14 GMT @dy444 said:

I'd always thought it was because the maximum length 444 formation (10 cars) only had 4 motor coaches whereas the maximum length 450 (12 cars) and 458 (8 cars) had 6 motor coaches (450s 2 per set, 458s 3 per set)

This morning i was passed by two 10-car cl.458 and one 10-car cl.455/456 combination operating via East Putney

I would assume that the restrictions for mainline stock are similar to why the NoL E* sets weren't in favour-they drew too much power and could trip out the supply!

[rincew1nd]

Feb 6, 2017 22:46:22 GMT gw43125 said:

Oct 21, 2016 16:11:19 GMT Dstock7080 said:

This morning i was passed by two 10-car cl.458 and one 10-car cl.455/456 combination operating via East Putney

I would assume that the restrictions for mainline stock are similar to why the NoL E* sets weren't in favour-they drew too much power and could trip out the supply!

I thought part of the problems with the North of London (NoL) Eurostar (E*) sets were because of their twin pantographs they set up oscillations in the overhead wire which the OLE on the the East Coast wasn't happy with due to its prevalence of headspans. For this reason they were limited to 110mph.

[Deleted]

Feb 6, 2017 19:19:41 GMT t697 said:

West Harrow route is not in the 750V conversion and I'm pretty sure doesn't have 'tunnel' lighting. I think the reference was to scope of work right across the Sub-Surface Railway, not the north Met line exclusively.

No it's not due to the Picc running from Rayners Lane it's the same west of Barons Court Sub Gaps the traction will remain at 630v of course except past the gap at Gunnersbury NR/LU boundary

[spsmiler]

Feb 6, 2017 10:48:43 GMT @tyteen4a03 said:

Oct 19, 2016 21:38:31 GMT philthetube said:

what tunnel lighting?  I don't think the north curve has any.

I'm guessing the tunnel to West Harrow.

I thought that there is a tunnel in the North Curve between Ricky and the Watford branch?

What tunnel to West Harrow? Apart from the flyunder at Harrow OT Hill the route is all in open air.

Simon

[norbitonflyer]

<<rincew1nd: Duplicate (shorter) post deleted.>>

Feb 7, 2017 19:36:27 GMT spsmiler said:

I thought that there is a tunnel in the North Curve between Ricky and the Watford branch?

There is. The question is whether it (or indeed the dive under at Harrow) has lighting. (I have only been through each once, both in daylight, and many years ago)

[philthetube]

Neither of them have tunnel lighting.

[Deleted]

Feb 7, 2017 19:57:57 GMT norbitonflyer said:

<<rincew1nd: Duplicate (shorter) post deleted.>>

Feb 7, 2017 19:36:27 GMT spsmiler said:

I thought that there is a tunnel in the North Curve between Ricky and the Watford branch?

There is. The question is whether it (or indeed the dive under at Harrow) has lighting. (I have only been through each once, both in daylight, and many years ago)

Yeah I was sort of just looking for any tunnels on the Met on Carto Metro. 

How does voltage work on places where 3rd rail trains also run? 

[norbitonflyer]

Apr 25, 2017 17:47:32 GMT @tyteen4a03 said:

How does voltage work on places where 3rd rail trains also run? 

Negative rail electrically bonded to tje running rails and thus at Earth voltage. Positive rail at full voltage (630, 750 or whatever)

NR trains see 750V between live rail and running rail. LUL trains see 750V between positive and negative rails. Everyone is happy.

[Dstock7080]

The traction voltage on parts the District/Circle/H&C Lines is to be increased to nominal 750vDC (regenerative voltage 890vDC) by the end of June:
- Upminster-Upney
- Barking-Whitechapel
- Tower Hill/Aldgate East-Moorgate
- Tower Hill-Victoria.

[domh245]

Jun 2, 2017 5:12:59 GMT Dstock7080 said:

The traction voltage on parts the District/Circle/H&C Lines is to be increased to nominal 750vDC (regenerative voltage 890vDC) by the end of June:
- Upminster-Upney
- Barking-Whitechapel
- Tower Hill/Aldgate East-Moorgate
- Tower Hill-Victoria.

Does that complete the upgrade, or are there still a few sections left?

[Dstock7080]

Jun 2, 2017 7:30:33 GMT domh245 said:

Does that complete the upgrade, or are there still a few sections left?

This is just the start of the power upgrades on Circle/District/H&C.

[domh245]

Jun 2, 2017 8:13:17 GMT Dstock7080 said:

Jun 2, 2017 7:30:33 GMT domh245 said:

Does that complete the upgrade, or are there still a few sections left?

This is just the start of the power upgrades on Circle/District/H&C.

Once these sections are done, is there any indication of what comes next and roughly what timescale? Finished by the end of this year, or is that overly optimistic?

[Deleted]

And also to the Notting Hill Gate Sub Gap

[t697]

H&C is now 890V Regen Hammersmith to Farringdon. 750V nominal supply Hammersmith to Paddington. More 890V Regen Barbican-Moorgate any day now. Network Rail fed area East Putney-Wimbledon gone 890V Regen this week.
Not quite clear from earlier threads, Moorgate-Aldgate to do soon with all the other areas listed also Gunnersbury-Richmond to go 890V Regen.
LU fed areas with 890V Regen will have the nominal supply voltage changed to 750V a short time later and certainly in 2017.
Areas shared with Picc don't go to higher voltage.

[Dstock7080]

Jun 2, 2017 9:30:57 GMT domh245 said:

Once these sections are done, is there any indication of what comes next and roughly what timescale? Finished by the end of this year, or is that overly optimistic?

just to put into context some new information and that from t697 :

already complete 750vDC traction voltage AND 890vDC regenerative voltage:
- Amersham-Harrow (October 2016)
- Hammersmith-Paddington H&C (January 2017)

already complete 890vDC regenerative voltage:
- Moorgate-Paddington/Notting Hill Gate/Finchley Road (May 2017)

still to complete 890vDC regenerative voltage:
- Putney Bridge-Wimbledon (NR) (imminent)
- Chiswick Park gap-Richmond (NR) (end-June 2017)
- South Kensington/High St Kensington-Putney Bridge/Barons Court (June>early-July 2017)
- Upminster-Victoria (June>early-July 2017)
- Lillie Bridge sidings

still to complete 750vDC traction voltage:
- Upminster-Victoria (June>early-July 2017)
- Whitechapel-Tower Hill/Moorgate (June>early-July 2017)
- South Kensington/High St Kensington-Putney Bridge/Barons Court (September 2017)
- Moorgate-Notting Hill Gate/Finchley Road (September 2017)
- Lillie Bridge sidings

[Chris M]

The South Kensington-Victoria and Moorgate-Aldgate/Aldgate East sections seem odd omissions. Is the there a reason for this or are they just not yet scheduled?

[bruce]

Finchley Road to Harrow is also missing.

[Chris M]

Jun 10, 2017 8:03:39 GMT bruce said:

Finchley Road to Harrow is also missing.

I wonder if that is related to the Jubilee and Chiltern lines running adjacent?

[Deleted]

Probably nothing to do with the chilterns more then likely the jubilee as they can be signalled onto the Met

[kesmet]

I didn't think the Jubilee or Met could run on each other's tracks any more - except around Neasden and Wembley Park, due to the depot.

That said, I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that there was some commonality in the supplies or other equipment along that section of track, because of the history there. Does anyone know for sure?

[Deleted]

They can't run on each other's track but they can be signalled onto each other's by the press of a wrong button so not to risk it like on the District & Piccadilly they more then likely will not increase the traction voltage

[norbitonflyer]

All four tracks were electrified by the Metropolitan Railway over a century ago, when even the Bakerloo,(never mind the Jubilee) was little more than a hole in the ground, so they have probably always shared a power supply. Building a whole duplicate electricity infrastructure is probably not worthwhile.

Likewise the four tracks between Hammersmith and Acton were electrified by the District long before the Piccy appeared.