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Post by goldenarrow on Dec 22, 2017 14:40:59 GMT
superteacher, Not quite sure what you are asking but the time and date I put above is roughly in tune with summer timetable change territory which, as snoggle pointed out, would make it a logical time to commence TfL rail services to Heathrow. The sixth month track closure originally detailed a mid-day start but that has been brought forward by four hours.
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Post by superteacher on Dec 22, 2017 14:57:03 GMT
superteacher, Not quite sure what you are asking but the time and date I put above is roughly in tune with summer timetable change territory which, as snoggle pointed out, would make it a logical time to commence TfL rail services to Heathrow. The sixth month track closure originally detailed a mid-day start but that has been brought forward by four hours. Thanks, just wasn’t sure about why the time was relevant, but it makes sense now. But why wouldn’t TFL take over from the start of traffic? Unless 0830 is the start of traffic on a Sunday? |
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Post by silenthunter on Dec 22, 2017 15:19:58 GMT
It might be on that date. Will TfL have all the 345s for that service available by then? How many of them have been delivered anyway?
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Post by 315 on Dec 22, 2017 18:43:27 GMT
It might be on that date. Will TfL have all the 345s for that service available by then? How many of them have been delivered anyway? They are way behind on deliveries on the East and currently playing catch up. As for the West, a plan has recently been put in place refresh the current Class 360/2 on the Heathrow Connect as there talk of a mixed fleet introduction of TfL Rail services in May. |
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Post by goldenarrow on Dec 23, 2017 0:14:41 GMT
superteacher, Not quite sure what you are asking but the time and date I put above is roughly in tune with summer timetable change territory which, as snoggle pointed out, would make it a logical time to commence TfL rail services to Heathrow. The sixth month track closure originally detailed a mid-day start but that has been brought forward by four hours. Thanks, just wasn’t sure about why the time was relevant, but it makes sense now. But why wouldn’t TFL take over from the start of traffic? Unless 0830 is the start of traffic on a Sunday? Usually the Heathrow Connect service is sacrosanct when work is taking place on the fast lines and Heathrow Exp and all GWR services are routed down the relief lines thus taking up additional slots/paths in the timetable. It remains to be seen weather a Heathrow Connect service will run on Saturday or weather it will be used to run a shadow timetable testing the interface of ETCS (European Train Control System) Level 2 as an overlay to conventional signalling between Crossrail units and all other rolling stock that will traverse the same tracks |
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Post by snoggle on Dec 23, 2017 0:27:50 GMT
Thanks, just wasn’t sure about why the time was relevant, but it makes sense now. But why wouldn’t TFL take over from the start of traffic? Unless 0830 is the start of traffic on a Sunday? Usually the Heathrow Connect service is sacrosanct when work is taking place on the fast lines and Heathrow Exp and all GWR services are routed down the relief lines thus taking up additional slots/paths in the timetable. It remains to be seen weather a Heathrow Connect service will run on Saturday or weather it will be used to run a shadow timetable testing the interface of ETCS (European Train Control System) Level 2 as an overlay to conventional signalling between Crossrail units and all other rolling stock that will traverse the same tracks That was my guess as to why there seemed to be a late start - the rolling stock / signalling interface. AIUI works over Christmas are absolutely crucial to getting ready for class 345s to run to Heathrow and to get the various signalling interfaces in place. Fascinating to see the other post hinting at the possible use of class 360s by TfL / MTR alongside the 345s. |
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Post by goldenarrow on Dec 23, 2017 1:52:15 GMT
It might be on that date. Will TfL have all the 345s for that service available by then? How many of them have been delivered anyway? TfL Rail will need at least 14 units to run 6tph to Heathrow, the number of completed full length units is still in single figures with a couple of units up at the Old Dalby test track. Using all five 360's from the Heathrow Con fleet will reduce the required number of 345's to nine units in a worst case scenario. |
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Post by superteacher on Jan 8, 2018 9:04:15 GMT
Well two 345’s broke down in this morning’s peak. Seems like they ate having a lot of issues with these trains. What are the main reasons for the breakdowns?
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Post by goldenarrow on Jan 8, 2018 13:13:03 GMT
Well two 345’s broke down in this morning’s peak. Seems like they ate having a lot of issues with these trains. What are the main reasons for the breakdowns? Those two were axed due to faults with their doors. One of the offending units managed to limp down to Seven Kings from Gidea Park before throwing in the towel. All other cancelled diagrams including ones rostered for 315's were cancelled throughout. |
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Post by superteacher on Jan 8, 2018 13:29:54 GMT
What is the specific issues with the doors? Seems to be a recurring problem.
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Post by goldenarrow on Jan 8, 2018 17:52:02 GMT
What is the specific issues with the doors? Seems to be a recurring problem. From what I gather, the two main problems are achieving a complete door interlock with the sensitive edge and the sustained alignment of the plug doors and associated mechanisms. Given the significant scale of crowding on this route, any weakness in the door mounts is going to be quickly exacerbated with items of clothing or people obstructing the doors. I'm not too sure how the doors on the 345's are mounted to the main frames but this design of plug doors do seem to be particularly prone to sensitive edge issues which could be caused by items or people obstructing the closing doors, misalignment in the closing position, poor tolerance fixtures/bracketry or a combination. |
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Post by superteacher on Jan 8, 2018 18:35:24 GMT
What is the specific issues with the doors? Seems to be a recurring problem. From what I gather, the two main problems are achieving a complete door interlock with the sensitive edge and the sustained alignment of the plug doors and associated mechanisms. Given the significant scale of crowding on this route, any weakness in the door mounts is going to be quickly exacerbated with items of clothing or people obstructing the doors. I'm not too sure how the doors on the 345's are mounted to the main frames but this design of plug doors do seem to be particularly prone to sensitive edge issues which could be caused by items or people obstructing the closing doors, misalignment in the closing position, poor tolerance fixtures/bracketry or a combination. Surely this should have been foreseen though? They knew how busy the trains would be. |
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Jan 8, 2018 18:40:15 GMT
I'm not too sure how the doors on the 345's are mounted to the main frames but this design of plug doors do seem to be particularly prone to sensitive edge issues which could be caused by items or people obstructing the closing doors, misalignment in the closing position, poor tolerance fixtures/bracketry or a combination. Well thats... ominous. |
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Post by Deep Level on Jan 8, 2018 18:40:55 GMT
Two cl345s parked out of service at Liverpool Street (perhaps linked to the above?) in platforms 15 and 18 meaning a lot of platform alterations during the evening peak.
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Post by goldenarrow on Jan 8, 2018 19:08:38 GMT
From what I gather, the two main problems are achieving a complete door interlock with the sensitive edge and the sustained alignment of the plug doors and associated mechanisms. Given the significant scale of crowding on this route, any weakness in the door mounts is going to be quickly exacerbated with items of clothing or people obstructing the doors. I'm not too sure how the doors on the 345's are mounted to the main frames but this design of plug doors do seem to be particularly prone to sensitive edge issues which could be caused by items or people obstructing the closing doors, misalignment in the closing position, poor tolerance fixtures/bracketry or a combination. Surely this should have been foreseen though? They knew how busy the trains would be. I'm sure it was thought of and acted upon, but contrary to the common modern image of train manufacturing, there is still a plethora of skilled intricate work that is carried out by hand and as with all manual work there is little chance of insuring absolute uniformity even if the same job is being carried by the same person with the same tools dozens of times over across a fleet. This period also marks rapid change for maintenance staff whom are having to adapt to new maintenance techniques and troubleshooting faults during inspection cycles. It goes without saying that we all hope that lessons learned with the pioneers in the Shenfield metro fleet will result in a more dependable fleet when the scales start putting some operational dependency on the 345's. |
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Post by goldenarrow on Jan 8, 2018 19:21:46 GMT
Two cl345s parked out of service at Liverpool Street (perhaps linked to the above?) in platforms 15 and 18 meaning a lot of platform alterations during the evening peak. The one on 15 might have been the 17:02 Gidea Park to London Liverpool Street cancelled due to "problems with traction equipment". Services using 16 this evening were mostly empties from various locations before entering service as usual a few mins later. |
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Post by superteacher on Jan 8, 2018 19:48:17 GMT
There was also a signal failure at Ilford this evening.
Someone who travels regularly on the line mentioned on Facebook earlier that no 345’s were in service during the evening peak. Any truth in that?
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metman
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Post by metman on Jan 8, 2018 21:01:18 GMT
Sensitive edge issues?? Sounds vaguely familiar......
I’m sure the problems will be ironed out soon.
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Post by Deep Level on Jan 8, 2018 21:12:06 GMT
There was also a signal failure at Ilford this evening. Someone who travels regularly on the line mentioned on Facebook earlier that no 345’s were in service during the evening peak. Any truth in that? I got a cl315 leaving Liv St at 18:42, the two trains following this were cl345s. |
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Post by silenthunter on Jan 8, 2018 23:22:37 GMT
Also, the 345s are the first of an entirely new design for Bombardier.
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Antje
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Post by Antje on Jan 31, 2018 19:45:28 GMT
I got a Class 345-010 on the first try, but I did not see any PM peak Shenfield 345s today.
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Post by Deep Level on Jan 31, 2018 19:50:48 GMT
I got a Class 345-010 on the first try, but I did not see any PM peak Shenfield 345s today. I was on one out of Liverpool Street at about 18:48. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2018 16:19:22 GMT
Are there any 9 car 345 units due IN service in the next 6 months ? thanks
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Post by goldenarrow on Feb 5, 2018 17:31:24 GMT
Are there any 9 car 345 units due IN service in the next 6 months ? If things go to plan, when TfL Rail take over the Heathrow Connect service between Paddington and Heathrow T's 1,2,3 & 4 on May 20th this year the line will operate with nine car class 345's from this date. However, contingency plans are in place to use the existing class 360 fleet if the 345's cannot be made ready for service in time for the handover date. |
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Post by silenthunter on Feb 5, 2018 17:33:36 GMT
Are there any 9 car 345 units due IN service in the next 6 months ? If things go to plan, when TfL Rail take over the Heathrow Connect service between Paddington and Heathrow T's 1,2,3 & 4 on May 20th this year the line will operate with nine car class 345's from this date. However, contingency plans are in place to use the existing class 360 fleet if the 345's cannot be made ready for service in time for the handover date. things go to plan. I saw a 345 at Old Oak Common the other day, but I think that was seven car. |
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Post by Chris M on Feb 5, 2018 21:17:47 GMT
Where are the 360s going when TfL Rail/Crossrail don't need them any longer?
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Post by snoggle on Feb 5, 2018 22:08:46 GMT
Are there any 9 car 345 units due IN service in the next 6 months ? If things go to plan, when TfL Rail take over the Heathrow Connect service between Paddington and Heathrow T's 1,2,3 & 4 on May 20th this year the line will operate with nine car class 345's from this date. However, contingency plans are in place to use the existing class 360 fleet if the 345's cannot be made ready for service in time for the handover date. The recent Crossrail transition update described the contingency plan as follows. - class 360s every 30 mins Paddington to Heathrow - class 345s (9 cars) every 30 mins Paddington to Hayes and Harlington Therefore TfL will run the planned x15 service Hayes and eastwards but the Heathrow service sees no improvement. Being the cynic that I am I suspect we will see the contingency plan in use for a number of months. I just think they have run out of time to be able to establish reliable ETMS operation with class 345s into Heathrow. Crossrail themselves have given a pretty broad hint in that direction so I'm saying anyting particularly new. Given the train software is not stable yet there is not a reliable rolling stock "platform" to integrate the signalling interface with. This problem is also a huge risk with the operation of the core where CBTC has to be able to work reliably with the rolling stock. I imagine a lot of people are having a fraught time trying to get all this to work. |
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Post by 315 on Feb 6, 2018 12:20:32 GMT
If things go to plan, when TfL Rail take over the Heathrow Connect service between Paddington and Heathrow T's 1,2,3 & 4 on May 20th this year the line will operate with nine car class 345's from this date. However, contingency plans are in place to use the existing class 360 fleet if the 345's cannot be made ready for service in time for the handover date. The recent Crossrail transition update described the contingency plan as follows. - class 360s every 30 mins Paddington to Heathrow - class 345s (9 cars) every 30 mins Paddington to Hayes and Harlington Therefore TfL will run the planned x15 service Hayes and eastwards but the Heathrow service sees no improvement. Being the cynic that I am I suspect we will see the contingency plan in use for a number of months. I just think they have run out of time to be able to establish reliable ETMS operation with class 345s into Heathrow. Crossrail themselves have given a pretty broad hint in that direction so I'm saying anyting particularly new. Given the train software is not stable yet there is not a reliable rolling stock "platform" to integrate the signalling interface with. This problem is also a huge risk with the operation of the core where CBTC has to be able to work reliably with the rolling stock. I imagine a lot of people are having a fraught time trying to get all this to work. You're right apart from that 9 car Class 345's do not fit into Hayes & Harlington (Bay platform). As a result, a number of 7 car 345's that were due to be delivered to the East are now going West to cover the half hourly service from 21st May. |
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Post by Deep Level on Feb 6, 2018 13:23:00 GMT
Its becoming a mess already!
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Post by goldenarrow on Feb 6, 2018 18:27:31 GMT
The recent Crossrail transition update described the contingency plan as follows. - class 360s every 30 mins Paddington to Heathrow - class 345s (9 cars) every 30 mins Paddington to Hayes and Harlington Therefore TfL will run the planned x15 service Hayes and eastwards but the Heathrow service sees no improvement. Being the cynic that I am I suspect we will see the contingency plan in use for a number of months. I just think they have run out of time to be able to establish reliable ETMS operation with class 345s into Heathrow. Crossrail themselves have given a pretty broad hint in that direction so I'm saying anyting particularly new. Given the train software is not stable yet there is not a reliable rolling stock "platform" to integrate the signalling interface with. This problem is also a huge risk with the operation of the core where CBTC has to be able to work reliably with the rolling stock. I imagine a lot of people are having a fraught time trying to get all this to work. You're right apart from that 9 car Class 345's do not fit into Hayes & Harlington (Bay platform). As a result, a number of 7 car 345's that were due to be delivered to the East are now going West to cover the half hourly service from 21st May. Wasn't Network Rail supposed to complete pt.2 of the bay platform extension at H&H for April this year? Or has that date gone out the window too? |
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