New DLR rolling stock

[spsmiler]

I thought that the DLR's new fleet was going to be 6 car trains - not 5, as here?

[t697]

May 16, 2022 11:04:20 GMT spsmiler said:

I thought that the DLR's new fleet was going to be 6 car trains - not 5, as here?

The CAF bid (and one other) was always for this 5 car non-articulated formation.  Looking back through the thread I see there isn't a clear step to this from speculation that the new train would be 6 cars or 6 shells.

[metman]

These trains remind me of the Paris Metro stock! I’m sure they’ll add plenty of extra capacity.

[grumpycat]

Not sure about 12 pairs or doors for 5 cars tho seems a bit odd for specification

[Dstock7080]

Superb progress being made with the new DLR B23 Rolling Stock, 2 trains at CAFs dynamic testing facility in Corella, Spain:
(not pantograph fitted, roundels are temporary)

[jimbo]

S stock and new Picc trains aim for even spacing of doors along the train to evenly spread loadings and minimise dwell times. Perhaps less important for DLR demand?

[Chris M]

I think the door spacing in the end cars is related to short-platform stations, but this doesn't explain the middle car.

[A60stock]

Few questions:

1. Why is the livery being changed (or why has the livery never been the same as the line colour on the map).

2. What is happening to the B07/B2K stock? What are the future plans for these as it looks like its only the B90/92s which are being replaced

[d7666]

Jun 23, 2022 14:23:16 GMT A60stock said:

Few questions:

1. (or why has the livery never been the same as the line colour on the map).

That reads like you think it ought to have ? What lines livery matches the colour on the line map, except the recent Elix line. (Stock red white blue are corporate, not line colours).

[A60stock]

All tube lines incorporate red and blue into the livery, which matches the underground corporate logo red and blue (red circle and blue bar)

The overground does exactly the same as the underground, except orange is used in place of red, which again matches the orange circle and blue bar of the logo

The croydon trams are almost the same as the two I mention above, except the livery used is green, which matches the green roundel and blue bar of the logo.

Even the Elizabeth line follows a purple colour scheme (granted its not in the same style as underground/overground/trams or even tfl rail, which I think it should have been), but at least the purple follows the purple roundel

The DLR by contrast uses red with white/silver doors, nothing like the roundel colours of the mode it represents.

[Chris M]

Jun 23, 2022 14:23:16 GMT A60stock said:

Few questions:
2. What is happening to the B07/B2K stock? What are the future plans for these as it looks like its only the B90/92s which are being replaced

The B07 and B09* stock trains (the ones with the newer external design) will continue to run as they do now for at least another few years as there is still life left in them.
The B2K units will be withdrawn along with the identical-looking B90 and B92, as although they are obviously not as old as the earlier builds they are also getting very long in the tooth and so less reliable. Running three different types of trains (the B07 and B09 are incompatible with the earlier stock except for emergency recovery; I don't know whether they will be compatible with the new trains but I would doubt it, the B2K definitely will not be) would significantly increase the maintenance burden and logistical hassles for little benefit - there are only 24 units of B2K stock so a maximum of 12 two-car trains, or 8 three-car trains assuming all are in service (I understand some of the old trains have been permanently stopped as a source of spares, but don't know whether these are B90, B92 or B2K)


*B09 trains are only sometimes called this, they're otherwise regarded as a second build of the B07s.

[jimbo]

The design life for trams and light rail is much less than that for heavy rail and LU. But TfL funding expires tonight, so even plans for new DLR and Picc trains must be in doubt!

[A60stock]

Jun 23, 2022 16:13:53 GMT Chris M said:

Jun 23, 2022 14:23:16 GMT A60stock said:

Few questions:
2. What is happening to the B07/B2K stock? What are the future plans for these as it looks like its only the B90/92s which are being replaced

The B07 and B09* stock trains (the ones with the newer external design) will continue to run as they do now for at least another few years as there is still life left in them.
The B2K units will be withdrawn along with the identical-looking B90 and B92, as although they are obviously not as old as the earlier builds they are also getting very long in the tooth and so less reliable. Running three different types of trains (the B07 and B09 are incompatible with the earlier stock except for emergency recovery; I don't know whether they will be compatible with the new trains but I would doubt it, the B2K definitely will not be) would significantly increase the maintenance burden and logistical hassles for little benefit - there are only 24 units of B2K stock so a maximum of 12 two-car trains, or 8 three-car trains assuming all are in service (I understand some of the old trains have been permanently stopped as a source of spares, but don't know whether these are B90, B92 or B2K)


*B09 trains are only sometimes called this, they're otherwise regarded as a second build of the B07s.

Will the B07s and B09s receive a refurbishment and new livery to match the new stock??

[Chris M]

I don't know.
With finances the way they are I'd guess that it's more likely to be no than yes, but I've been proven wrong before.

[goldenarrow]

An update from the Investment Programme Report Q1 2022/23:

Rolling stock delivery

In April 2022, dynamic testing (20,000km) started on the new DLR rolling stock. The manufacture of the new rolling stock in Spain is continuing to plan with three completed trains in the testing phase, one train awaiting delivery to the testing area and another in the final stages of manufacture, before delivery of the first two trains to Beckton in early 2023.


Beckton depot and Housing Infrastructure Funding

At Beckton depot, work on the northern sidings and sub-station continues. Prepossession works are being progressed to deliver the end state northern sidings and power, which will be commissioned in late 2022. Tenders for the maintenance facility building, temporary fit-out shed and additional southern sidings have been received, with the contract planned to be awarded by late 2022.

Having previously completed the acquisition of land at Beckton next to the depot, the planning application for the new site south of the existing depot that will house the additional HIF trains has now been submitted. This will allow works on the land to begin later in the year.

[jimbo]

On 26 September we introduced a new timetable on the DLR to better support current and future demand ... these changes will prepare the DLR for the introduction of new trains in 2024 and ensure our operations remain strong in the meantime. [TfL Commissioner’s report - October 2022]

[spsmiler]

I wonder if the new trains will be route specific?

[Chris M]

If its like the introduction of the B07 stock then at first they will be primarily operated on the busiest routes (Bank to Lewisham, Bank to Woolwich) but it wont be long before they're used on all routes.

[Chris L]

Oct 5, 2022 12:50:15 GMT Chris M said:

If its like the introduction of the B07 stock then at first they will be primarily operated on the busiest routes (Bank to Lewisham, Bank to Woolwich) but it wont be long before they're used on all routes.

Even more so if they are based at Beckton.

[jimbo]

Phased introduction of the B07 was probably based on progressive staff training? They were more like 'more of the same' trains. But the coming delivery offers a step change in capacity, so will probably be confined to the busiest routes. Except to and from depot trips! Released older units will permit all 3-car trains before surplus are disposed of.

[Chris M]

The B07s were not just more of the same trains but equally they were not as big a difference as between the B07s and the new trains (I can't remember if they've been given a name yet?). The DLR is extremely flexible which means it can and does change routes at the drop of a hat when required due to planned and unplanned disruption. Given this the trains will appear on all the routes at some point, even if they wont be in all-day regular service (although I think they will form the majority of the fleet when delivery is complete). For example I wouldn't be surprised to see some on morning peak Stratford-Canary Wharf/Lewisham services or running to Beckton when there are large events at ExCeL.

[grumpycat]

Any updates on these? Wasn't the first supposed to come early this year?

[Chris M]

I'm not seeing any news more recent than October, which noted that the first train is due in London "in early 2023" which could easily mean anywhere between early January and late March/early April.

[Dstock7080]

On 14 December it was announced that the first new train is due to be delivered to London “next month”.

[ijmad]

Oct 5, 2022 12:50:15 GMT Chris M said:

If its like the introduction of the B07 stock then at first they will be primarily operated on the busiest routes (Bank to Lewisham, Bank to Woolwich) but it wont be long before they're used on all routes.

When the new stock is fully delivered, I believe the idea is to run full length trains on all routes, which will be one 5 car fixed formation of these new trains, or 3x B07/09.

I wonder if we will eventually see a complete mix to everywhere, or whether the new and old trains will be fixed to particular routes on the system.

[Chris M]

Given that the only really self contained route is Stratford-Canary Wharf and there will be more B07/B09 trains than are required to run that service I suspect there will be a mix everywhere, at least once the new trains are fully bedded in.

[Dstock7080]

Car 201D and one other arrived in Beckton depot this morning.

[ijmad]

Are they being dragged through the Channel Tunnel?

[100andthirty]

Jan 13, 2023 10:10:28 GMT Dstock7080 said:

Car 201D and one other arrived in Beckton depot this morning.

On the back of lorries!

[thinlizzy]

Jan 13, 2023 10:10:28 GMT Dstock7080 said:

Car 201D and one other arrived in Beckton depot this morning.

The remaining parts of vehicle 201 are expected at Beckton on Monday