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Post by drainrat on May 11, 2017 10:20:49 GMT
drainrat -senior management are often told things that are different to what actually happens on the ground* ... (There was a lot of that at the time of privatisation, especially in relation to assets which were suddenly "discovered" after the event; less of an issue with staff, who would usually pipe up if overlooked - apart from the photographic unit attached to one of the Infracos - another story). Indeed, and having sat both sides of the table I find staff side more trustworthy |
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Post by grahamhewett on May 11, 2017 10:49:28 GMT
drainrat :-) [Sometimes, the more realistic senior management used to speculate on how long the railway would carry on running without them - answers varied from a few weeks to "the next crisis", which could be months away and usually involved the money running out.] Privatisation came as a shock to many senior (and middle) management because they kept finding out things they didn't know and which now had to be incorporated into some legal agreement. As a rule of thumb, those who practised management by walking about tended to know a lot more than those who "stuck close by their desks and never went to sea". The Drain,in particular,had been too small to engage senior staff attention before its transfer; same with the Island Line. Again,there, senior people kept discovering new matters like the source of the ballast, or the location of the power controls, which became privatisation show stoppers for a while, but which they had never considered before.
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Post by drainrat on May 13, 2017 19:59:55 GMT
drainrat :-) [Sometimes, the more realistic senior management used to speculate on how long the railway would carry on running without them - answers varied from a few weeks to "the next crisis", which could be months away and usually involved the money running out.] Privatisation came as a shock to many senior (and middle) management because they kept finding out things they didn't know and which now had to be incorporated into some legal agreement. As a rule of thumb, those who practised management by walking about tended to know a lot more than those who "stuck close by their desks and never went to sea". The Drain,in particular,had been too small to engage senior staff attention before its transfer; same with the Island Line. Again,there, senior people kept discovering new matters like the source of the ballast, or the location of the power controls, which became privatisation show stoppers for a while, but which they had never considered before. I would say the drain has been a success, so, kudos to you Graham 🙌 |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2017 6:56:07 GMT
The rumour mill at White City has been going again, apparently the drain is to be transferred over to Elephant & Castle drivers. Can anybody debunk this?
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Post by drainrat on May 14, 2017 7:07:39 GMT
The rumour mill at White City has been going again, apparently the drain is to be transferred over to Elephant & Castle drivers. Can anybody debunk this? strange how only drivers start these rumours. There is talk of the drain having its own roster, talk of it going to E&C is old hat, has been going on for years, if I had a pound for every time I heard it....blah, blah, blah! |
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Post by grahamhewett on May 14, 2017 7:28:51 GMT
drainrat - thank you - my private agenda, as BR Company Secretary at the time, in pushing the transfer was to prevent it being used as a precedent for privatising the tube generally - so,yes, highly successful, and a rare win over the politicians during the privatisation process... [The key thing was to keep quiet about the real reason and to be seen to sell it to the Board as a trivial piece of tidying up which cost nothing].
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Post by domh245 on May 14, 2017 8:50:54 GMT
The rumour mill at White City has been going again, apparently the drain is to be transferred over to Elephant & Castle drivers. Can anybody debunk this? It'd be a perfectly sensible thing to do after the Deep Tube Upgrade Programme, in about 2030, as the rolling stock would be the same across the W&C, Central, and Bakerloo, so at that point you might as well go for the closest depot. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on May 14, 2017 9:16:06 GMT
Except that by then E&C depot may have been replaced by a bigger depot on the extension.
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Post by drainrat on May 14, 2017 16:19:05 GMT
drainrat - thank you - my private agenda, as BR Company Secretary at the time, in pushing the transfer was to prevent it being used as a precedent for privatising the tube generally - so,yes, highly successful, and a rare win over the politicians during the privatisation process... [The key thing was to keep quiet about the real reason and to be seen to sell it to the Board as a trivial piece of tidying up which cost nothing]. I think history would say that you achieved what you set out to. Admittedly, in me time as both a H&S and IR rep, I did read a lot of Carnegies winning friends and influencing people, it made a lot of sense, trying to be a socialist in a capitalist world and all that, Carnegie was a capitalist but his message had equal meaning to the socialists. Down Waterloo a few years back, we had a fantastic manager who knew how to keep all the cogs turning on all sides of the central hub, it was a joy and a pleasure both to know and work with him, sadly, LUL wanted to see the back of him. If there is any time you would like to see your legacy, I would be happy to show you, it would be an honour 😀 |
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Post by drainrat on May 14, 2017 16:20:59 GMT
The rumour mill at White City has been going again, apparently the drain is to be transferred over to Elephant & Castle drivers. Can anybody debunk this? It'd be a perfectly sensible thing to do after the Deep Tube Upgrade Programme, in about 2030, as the rolling stock would be the same across the W&C, Central, and Bakerloo, so at that point you might as well go for the closest depot. Short term, it makes little to no sense whatsoever |
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Post by domh245 on May 14, 2017 16:33:22 GMT
It'd be a perfectly sensible thing to do after the Deep Tube Upgrade Programme, in about 2030, as the rolling stock would be the same across the W&C, Central, and Bakerloo, so at that point you might as well go for the closest depot. Short term, it makes little to no sense whatsoever Definitely, but @kingsiwel's post didn't have any timeframe to it, whether or not that's because they themselves omitted it, or because the rumours themselves don't have a timeframe, I don't know. |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2017 16:36:31 GMT
Short term, it makes little to no sense whatsoever Definitely, but @kingsiwel's post didn't have any timeframe to it, whether or not that's because they themselves omitted it, or because the rumours themselves don't have a timeframe, I don't know. The rumours themselves didn't have a time frame. |
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Post by drainrat on May 14, 2017 16:38:59 GMT
Short term, it makes little to no sense whatsoever Definitely, but @kingsiwel 's post didn't have any timeframe to it, whether or not that's because they themselves omitted it, or because the rumours themselves don't have a timeframe, I don't know. As I said before, if I had a pound.....blah, blah, blah 😉 |
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Post by drainrat on May 14, 2017 16:42:49 GMT
Definitely, but @kingsiwel 's post didn't have any timeframe to it, whether or not that's because they themselves omitted it, or because the rumours themselves don't have a timeframe, I don't know. The rumours themselves didn't have a time frame. Well, I have been on the central line for 15+ years and in that time, this has possibly been the 8th or 9th time I've heard it, so, time frame wise, if someone mentions it in the year dot, and it happens within a century or more, then the rumour may become reality lol |
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Post by drainrat on May 14, 2017 16:59:30 GMT
I think the key here is that anything can happen at anytime, just because it does, doesn't mean the rumours were true, a lot of the time things are self fulfilling. As I say, these rumours aren't new, they are extremely old in fact, and date back to when LUL took over running the drain. Having been involved in in depth discussion with LUL and later TfL over rosters for the drain, the most talked about outcome has been a stand alone roster, drivers working the drain who only work the drain and not drivers from Leytonstone or elephant working the line as part of their line rosters. The trouble is, the current regulars are highly unlikely to want to book on/off down there without travelling time and other 'perks' of working down there, and given how the line works, neither are any other depots either. TfL management believe we love driving down the drain purely cause we love it, and that couldn't be further from the truth, there are many factors, but take away those factors and the house of cards start to fall, create a stand alone depot and very, very few drivers would want to drive there, push it further and the line would be difficult to run. A lot of talking and planning has gone on over last 20 yrs to get where we are, but when people want to create a name for themselves, then good luck.
On a personal note, White city drivers generally talk a lot, but that's all they do 😉
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Post by grahamhewett on May 14, 2017 18:22:50 GMT
drainrat - I might just take you up on that offer*. (Not for a bit, tho' - just off to eastern Europe for a fix of Tatras and some remote Czecho ng steam). *As you may imagine, the transfer process was - like the rest of the privatisation - something done in dreary offices, usually in the small hours (bankers didn't turn up until after dinner, we discovered and then became hungry again by about 0200 - I always made sure that my side of the table had a plentiful supply of personal snacks, which they were encouraged to eat about then).
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