North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
Posts: 1,769
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Post by North End on Jul 16, 2021 0:18:49 GMT
I suspect a lot of people don’t really know why detrainment happens. Originally it was because of shunt moves, but the Liverpool Street accident changed all that. Since then inner inter car barriers appeared (on some lines) which is supposed to address that issue. Stuck in the middle of all this is the potential for train operators to encounter an aggressive passenger whilst changing ends, and the fact that carrying passengers over shunt moves is now rather more permissible than it traditionally was. So who really knows why we detrain in most locations, but not at some (for example Kennington), it’s just one of those things which will run on and on until there’s another mishap. Kennington is a bit of a mess; I can see why detrainment doesn’t happen there as it is a complete nuisance, but there is the potential for bad things to happen, as indeed they have over the years. What Liverpool Street accident? By the 1990s LU weren’t tipping out when reversing via sidings or shunts, instead just making announcements and then closing the doors. Someone was over carried into Liverpool Street siding, and it seems the person attempted to either walk through the train, or perhaps climb out. No one knows what exactly happened, but the person ended up under the train and sustained fatal injuries. From that point on full detrainment was again mandated, which has been the case ever since, albeit with a few twists and turns along the way. I suspect it’s this incident which is why the Central Line does the announcements. For some reason the Picc always did a full detrainment. |
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 16, 2021 9:54:34 GMT
If I remember correctly the man had a ticket for a train to Colchester, Norwich or somewhere up that way, he was late and was rushing to catch his train. The platform was very crowded, on CCTV footage he could be seen getting on and off the train going from car to car to avoid the crowds. The doors closed, the train left and it is assumed he fell between the cars where the interconnecting doors were found open.
This was before 2002 when I switched from stations to trains, I'm pretty sure that was when I first heard about the incident although it could have been before I joined in December 1997. I certainly had to detrain on the Bakerloo at Paddington a few times in 1998.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 20, 2021 10:05:23 GMT
Confirmed by the ASLEF rep "flash-and-dash" starts today but only for trains going into 5 Road, if its going into the other two roads or into the depot we close up on the porter buttons.
And if there's a "carry over" its management's problem not ours, we were simply following their instructions.
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hobbayne
RIP John Lennon and George Harrison
Posts: 516
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Post by hobbayne on Jul 20, 2021 10:33:11 GMT
Confirmed by the ASLEF rep "flash-and-dash" starts today but only for trains going into 5 Road, if its going into the other two roads or into the depot we close up on the porter buttons. And if there's a "carry over" its management's problem not ours, we were simply following their instructions. Yes. the onsite DRM will take complete responsibility regarding any overcarries. Fairy Nuff. |
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North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
Posts: 1,769
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Post by North End on Jul 20, 2021 15:25:28 GMT
Confirmed by the ASLEF rep "flash-and-dash" starts today but only for trains going into 5 Road, if its going into the other two roads or into the depot we close up on the porter buttons. And if there's a "carry over" its management's problem not ours, we were simply following their instructions. Aside from the issue of encountering a problem person whilst changing ends (not really an issue at Waterloo), I don’t really see the issue with it being management’s problem. If they’re comfortable with the risk of something going wrong then so be it. To be fair, it is a fairly low risk (in my view). |
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 20, 2021 17:04:52 GMT
If the passenger(s) stays put then all we need to carry them back over a shunt signal to Departures is authority from the service control manager although we might need the DRM to travel in the car with them to ensure they don't try to go through the interconnecting doors while going over the points (seriously dangerous)
If for some reason we can't take them back on the train they would have to be walked out of the depot by the DRM or someone else licenced to do so
If the passenger(s) decides to detrain themselves and go walkabout in the depot then obviously it gets a bit more complicated (don't think they won't).
DRM = Duty Reliability Manager
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North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
Posts: 1,769
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Post by North End on Jul 20, 2021 17:14:30 GMT
If the passenger(s) stays put then all we need to carry them back over a shunt signal to Departures is authority from the service control manager although we might need the DRM to travel in the car with them to ensure they don't try to go through the interconnecting doors while going over the points (seriously dangerous) If for some reason we can't take them back on the train they would have to be walked out of the depot by the DRM or someone else licenced to do so If the passenger(s) decides to detrain themselves and go walkabout in the depot then obviously it gets a bit more complicated (don't think they won't). DRM = Duty Reliability Manager The passenger can’t simply self detrain - unless they have a J door key. Do the W&C units have inner inter car barriers? That is the mitigation against falling out. I agree it’s not ideal, but I’m not convinced it’s the end of the world, providing there are mitigations in place. |
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 20, 2021 18:27:05 GMT
The panel on the J Door can be broken to access the handle, never underestimate the ingenuity and determination of our passengers.
At the moment it isn't a big problem as the passenger numbers are nothing like they were pre-Covid and we're only running a 3-train service in the peaks. If passenger numbers recover and we start running later that could change.
Its certainly not the end of the world but it could be rather amusing.
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Post by drainrat on Dec 17, 2021 15:53:26 GMT
Confirmed by the ASLEF rep "flash-and-dash" starts today but only for trains going into 5 Road, if its going into the other two roads or into the depot we close up on the porter buttons. And if there's a "carry over" its management's problem not ours, we were simply following their instructions. Yes. the onsite DRM will take complete responsibility regarding any overcarries. Fairy Nuff. except when the DRM gets the driver to deal with it, which happened this week. If the passenger(s) stays put then all we need to carry them back over a shunt signal to Departures is authority from the service control manager although we might need the DRM to travel in the car with them to ensure they don't try to go through the interconnecting doors while going over the points (seriously dangerous) If for some reason we can't take them back on the train they would have to be walked out of the depot by the DRM or someone else licenced to do so If the passenger(s) decides to detrain themselves and go walkabout in the depot then obviously it gets a bit more complicated (don't think they won't). DRM = Duty Reliability Manager we have had one go missing already 🙄 The panel on the J Door can be broken to access the handle, never underestimate the ingenuity and determination of our passengers. At the moment it isn't a big problem as the passenger numbers are nothing like they were pre-Covid and we're only running a 3-train service in the peaks. If passenger numbers recover and we start running later that could change. Its certainly not the end of the world but it could be rather amusing. 3 in an hr on Monday, 2 needed the driver to go to the passenger, one of them, the passenger was out of his head 🙄 |
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