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Post by brigham on Dec 7, 2019 8:36:57 GMT
Does that mean platforms 1 and 2 are, in fact, normally out of use?
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Post by superteacher on Dec 7, 2019 8:38:19 GMT
Does that mean platforms 1 and 2 are, in fact, normally out of use? Correct. |
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Post by phil on Dec 7, 2019 12:57:47 GMT
Does that mean platforms 1 and 2 are, in fact, normally out of use?
This is quite normal these days - on the GWML platforms facing the fast lines at suburban stations are fenced off as no trains are scheduled to call. The same is done on the BML from Victoria southwards and no doubt elsewhere too.
The idea is to try and help prevent suicides, etc by making it hard to launch yourself in front of a fast moving train. However because these fast line platforms are sometimes needed during disruption or engineering works, said platforms cannot be removed permanently.
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Post by spsmiler on Dec 8, 2019 0:26:10 GMT
From the point of view of preventing suicides the fences are a good idea, and I've even found them useful as a place to rest a camera for steadier filming (instead of tripods) but where I find them a nuisance is when a platform is crowded and I want to reach the far end - as they make me have to try force my way through the crowds whereas in the old days there was almost always enough space on the other side of the platform.
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Post by Chris L on Dec 8, 2019 3:29:25 GMT
Does that mean platforms 1 and 2 are, in fact, normally out of use?
This is quite normal these days - on the GWML platforms facing the fast lines at suburban stations are fenced off as no trains are scheduled to call. The same is done on the BML from Victoria southwards and no doubt elsewhere too.
The idea is to try and help prevent suicides, etc by making it hard to launch yourself in front of a fast moving train. However because these fast line platforms are sometimes needed during disruption or engineering works, said platforms cannot be removed permanently.
Early morning and late night TfL Rail trains serve the platforms. Also some weekends when engineering works preventing platforms 3 & 4 being served. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Dec 8, 2019 9:31:32 GMT
The idea is to try and help prevent suicides, etc by making it hard to launch yourself in front of a fast moving train. However because these fast line platforms are sometimes needed during disruption or engineering works, said platforms cannot be removed permanently. [/div][/quote] Wimbledon fast line platforms, 6 and 7, are fenced off (from 5 and 8 respectively) for the same reason. Staff are on hand to open the gates when trains are due on the few services which do stop (a half-hourly Sunday service, plus a few special stops during the tennis fortnight) |
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Post by alpinejohn on Dec 9, 2019 13:05:01 GMT
So it seems TFL rail will officially begin operating services to Reading later this month. I know there are already some Class 345 running to Reading but these are apparently still officially Great Western Railway services. In future the services will still only be run "for TFL Rail" with the actual operation carried out by MTR Cross Rail Limited, who seem to be keeping a low profile for now, and yet they will actually be the people really responsible for delivering the Crossrail services.
What seems unclear is whether the existing GWR drivers and staff running those services will just get transferred automatically to MTR - meaning there is already a decent pool of drivers with appropriate route knowledge and that the current informal switchover to Class 345 operation is simply intended to allow them to be familiar with the different rolling stock which they will be using in future. If not, does MTR have a huge reserve of suitably trained drivers and station staff ready to take over?
Obviously MTR have had to delay a lot of their original staff recruitment timetable to reflect the delayed commissioning of the Crossrail route. Whilst that must be frustrating for both MTR and applicants, ages ago I saw suggestions that MTR would eventually need 400+ drivers, with a complement of other staff taking the numbers needed to operate the full route to well over 1000.
However it seems they are trying to do that at the same time as many other current train operating companies are strugging to recruit/retain enough drivers to operate their intended services.
Hence the big worry is that you cannot just round up 1,000 trained staff overnight especially if some of the facilities they will be responsible for, are still off-limits whilst under construction and testing.
Recruitment adverts for drivers and other roles by MTR certainly appeared a while back. But it seems some candidates are still in the dark as to whether or not their applications have been accepted, whilst others who have been accepted have been told they are not going to enter training until the second half of 2020. These are however real people and the idea of telling them they are simply in standby mode and will be receiving no pay at all for the next x months, could well result in some potential staff giving up on Crossrail and accepting an earlier start date with other TOCs.
It would be rather galling if after months of delays due to "construction problems" they are simply replaced by further delay or heavily limited services because MTR have failed to recruit and train all the necessary staff in time to run services through the core once it is finally ready to open.
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futurix
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Post by futurix on Dec 9, 2019 17:03:01 GMT
I doubt they will just ignore hundreds of existing drivers and tell them to take a hike. What did they do with Shenfield services?
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Post by Chris L on Dec 9, 2019 18:58:39 GMT
MTR Elizabeth line as it is now called has been staffing some stations on the west side for some time.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Jan 6, 2020 13:35:57 GMT
Autumn 2021 it would seem....
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Post by Chris L on Jan 6, 2020 16:34:24 GMT
Autumn 2021 it would seem.... Supposed to be down to signalling issues. The Central section and out to Abbey Wood is self contained. It seems amazing that this can't operate much sooner. Is it a Siemans or a Bombardier problem? |
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Post by goldenarrow on Jan 6, 2020 17:22:22 GMT
Autumn 2021 it would seem.... Supposed to be down to signalling issues. The Central section and out to Abbey Wood is self contained. It seems amazing that this can't operate much sooner. Is it a Siemans or a Bombardier problem? This revised timetable is a business plan forecast based on a plethora of assumptions and is not the direct result of a few select factors that are significant to the actual operation of the railway. Today’s announcement suggests that the political price of this news greatly eclipses any change to the position of the project in Dec 2019. Most of the Central stations have reached the points were the vast majority of the works going on make no aesthetic difference whatsoever. Compliance and assurance testing of station infrastructure cannot be rushed if you want to avoid another costly Canary Wharf debacle. The sheer volume of documents to be processed shows the magnitude of this work totalling over a quarter of a million documents to be signed off before all 30 sites/zones can be handed to support operations. This is one of the reasons why a self contained shuttle service say between Abbey Wood Whitechapel cannot operate even though a fair few stations now have fully functioning Platform Screen Doors. Crossrail are due to give an update on the deliverability of the project in the coming weeks which should give greater consideration to actual railway related matters as opposed to a business case style forecast which is pessimistic but pragmatic. |
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jan 6, 2020 18:42:42 GMT
Autumn 2021 it would seem.... Supposed to be down to signalling issues. The Central section and out to Abbey Wood is self contained. It seems amazing that this can't operate much sooner. Is it a Siemans or a Bombardier problem? The central section may be self contained but the trains have to come from Ilford or Old Oak Common
The contract for the central section CBTC (Communications-based train control) signalling was awarded to a Siemens/Invensys consortium although the trains will also operate with Bombardier ETCS (European Train Control System) on the Heathrow spur and BR/Railtrack TPWS (Train Protection & Warning System) everywhere else.
Without knowing what the actual problem is it would be hard to say whose problem it is - probably everybody's.
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Post by Chris W on Jan 6, 2020 20:34:48 GMT
Autumn 2021 it would seem.... The cynical me thinks that TfL are announcing delayed dates now, however far ahead, so that when it opens earlier, the launch of each branch can be celebrated as a great advance/achievement, as opposed to the current political and PR disaster that it is    It'll be interesting to compare the reality from this post...  |
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Jan 6, 2020 21:14:18 GMT
Quite possible. It's also me the finance team saying "we're not expecting it, of it opens then that's just a bonus".
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class411
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Post by class411 on Jan 8, 2020 5:26:34 GMT
I’ve been quite impressed that, in their reporting, both the Grauniad and the BBC have managed to avoid the use of the word: ‘farce’.
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Post by John Tuthill on Jan 8, 2020 8:10:49 GMT
I’ve been quite impressed that, in their reporting, both the Grauniad and the BBC have managed to avoid the use of the word: ‘farce’. Only because they can't spell it, or do they think it's a self description? |
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class411
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Post by class411 on Jan 8, 2020 10:20:30 GMT
I’ve been quite impressed that, in their reporting, both the Grauniad and the BBC have managed to avoid the use of the word: ‘farce’. Only because they can't spell it, or do they think it's a self description? In case anyone else didn't get the joke - which would not be surprising because it's based on what happened decades ago: Back before the 80s, the Guardian had a (justified) reputation for typos (I assume that its journalists and sub-editors could actually spell). In the satirical magazine 'Private Eye' it was always referred to as 'The Grauniad'. In a case of life following art, the Guardian did, on at least one occasion, refer to themselves as 'The Grauniad'. Some of us still use that name (I don't read Private Eye any more so I don't know if they've carried it on) but i suppose the proportion of people who'll get it is diminishing. |
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Post by John Tuthill on Jan 8, 2020 11:36:18 GMT
Only because they can't spell it, or do they think it's a self description? In case anyone else didn't get the joke - which would not be surprising because it's based on what happened decades ago: Back before the 80s, the Guardian had a (justified) reputation for typos (I assume that its journalists and sub-editors could actually spell). In the satirical magazine 'Private Eye' it was always referred to as 'The Grauniad'. In a case of life following art, the Guardian did, on at least one occasion, refer to themselves as 'The Grauniad'. Some of us still use that name (I don't read Private Eye any more so I don't know if they've carried it on) but i suppose the proportion of people who'll get it is diminishing. You make us sound like 'victims' in a Christie novella |
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Post by tjw on Jan 8, 2020 14:01:15 GMT
In case anyone else didn't get the joke - which would not be surprising because it's based Back before the 80s, the Guardian had a (justified) reputation for typos (I assume that its journalists and sub-editors could actually spell). In the satirical magazine 'Private Eye' it was always referred to as 'The Grauniad'. In a case of life following art, the Guardian did, on at least one occasion, refer to themselves as 'The Grauniad'. Some of us still use that name (I don't read Private Eye any more so I don't know if they've carried it on) but i suppose the proportion of people who'll get it is diminishing. Just tap in www.Grauniad.co.uk or www.Grauniad.com and see what happens! |
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jan 8, 2020 15:44:38 GMT
To quote E.B. White, the author of "Charlotte's Web" and "Stuart Little"...
"Explaining a joke is like dissecting a frog. You understand it better but the frog dies in the process".
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futurix
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Post by futurix on Jan 8, 2020 19:37:37 GMT
Some of us still use that name (I don't read Private Eye any more so I don't know if they've carried it on) but i suppose the proportion of people who'll get it is diminishing. I think the knowledge is being passed to the younger generations by memes and Twitter - I was a relatively new arrival to the British Isles (2006) and still somehow learned about it (and that before I ever read Private Eye). |
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Post by Chris W on Jan 8, 2020 20:34:10 GMT
That just proves that the powers that be at The Guardian have a sense of humour |
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Post by superteacher on Jan 8, 2020 20:36:41 GMT
Anyway folks, back on topic please.
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Post by alpinejohn on Jan 10, 2020 13:27:51 GMT
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Post by goldenarrow on Jan 10, 2020 13:42:42 GMT
If I've read the article correctly, it wasn't the wrong system merely the wrong control panels. The panels offer varying degrees of functionality dependant on the the infrastructure the wider system operates around which of course in a railway environment is quite "aggressive". Sounds to me more like a regulatory issue rather than a major slip up as the control panel is just an interchangeable interface for the wider system which appears unaffected. |
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jan 10, 2020 15:14:14 GMT
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Post by goldenarrow on Jan 10, 2020 16:04:51 GMT
Press release on a more accurate forecast of the back of a board meeting yesterday. Summer 2021 = Late August / Early September 2021 Internally, there was speculation that intensive testing had been chalked in for around Nov 2020, the press release of course plays it safe with Autumn 2020. The bit that will be making most of the headlines tonight. Whilst not explicitly mentioned, it does give a rough estimate as to when NR will have the capacity to extend platforms at Liverpool St as the Shenfield Metros integration is this that mid-2022 target.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jan 10, 2020 17:15:42 GMT
It's not so much NR getting round to extending the platforms at Liverpool Street - they can't do it until the core opens and takes some of the traffic as the extension works will reduce the platform count by 1.
NR not getting round to things though is why the western stations don't all have step free access yet.
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Post by goldenarrow on Jan 10, 2020 20:03:54 GMT
Chris M , Thank you for clarifying that. I think I’ve become slightly tone deaf to Crossrail’s stages now that 5a is up and running.
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