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Post by Deep Level on Oct 3, 2019 6:55:52 GMT
Does anyone know the latest on the Heathrow Tunnel signalling issues? It seems to have gone silent however as far as I know TfL Rail are still running the CL360s to Heathrow and terminating trains at Hayes & Harlington.
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Post by goldenarrow on Oct 3, 2019 11:07:48 GMT
Deep Level , I know that there have been tests down to T5 relatively recently. I was speaking to a technician the other day at work, he wasn’t too optimistic. I can’t quote directly as it isn’t suitable for broadcast, but there are underlying issues with getting the software signed off for 9 car operation to Reading. Contingency plans are in place to use 7 cars if that doesn’t materialise but that could meddle with the revised schedule for getting trains into service for example to Heathrow. I would find it hilarious if HEX get their 387’s into revenue earning service before the 345's at the December timetable change. Bombardier would have been out done by their own yesteryear product!
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Post by Chris L on Oct 4, 2019 8:07:39 GMT
Deep Level , I know that there have been tests down to T5 relatively recently. I was speaking to a technician the other day at work, he wasn’t too optimistic. I can’t quote directly as it isn’t suitable for broadcast, but there are underlying issues with getting the software signed off for 9 car operation to Reading. Contingency plans are in place to use 7 cars if that doesn’t materialise but that could meddle with the revised schedule for getting trains into service for example to Heathrow. I would find it hilarious if HEX get their 387’s into revenue earning service at the December timetable change. Bombardier would have been out done by their own yesteryear product! The 378s require the same signalling additions/modifications/acceptance as the 345s. |
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Post by goldenarrow on Oct 4, 2019 14:17:42 GMT
Deep Level , I know that there have been tests down to T5 relatively recently. I was speaking to a technician the other day at work, he wasn’t too optimistic. I can’t quote directly as it isn’t suitable for broadcast, but there are underlying issues with getting the software signed off for 9 car operation to Reading. Contingency plans are in place to use 7 cars if that doesn’t materialise but that could meddle with the revised schedule for getting trains into service for example to Heathrow. I would find it hilarious if HEX get their 387’s into revenue earning service at the December timetable change. Bombardier would have been out done by their own yesteryear product! The 378s require the same signalling additions/modifications/acceptance as the 345s. Yes, and yet that hasn't stopped some bets being placed. Like Crossrail, this could turn out to be a costly Christmas for some! |
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Post by Chris L on Oct 4, 2019 18:54:13 GMT
The 378s require the same signalling additions/modifications/acceptance as the 345s. Yes, and yet that hasn't stopped some bets being placed. Like Crossrail, this could turn out to be a costly Christmas for some! but don't the 378s need to be replaced by 345s to free them up for fitting out for Heathrow Express? |
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Post by goldenarrow on Oct 4, 2019 19:22:59 GMT
Yes, and yet that hasn't stopped some bets being placed. Like Crossrail, this could turn out to be a costly Christmas for some! but don't the 378s need to be replaced by 345s to free them up for fitting out for Heathrow Express? I have no idea what the current game plan is for getting the 387's with HEX now that I've gone part time. Last time I checked, it was a phased introduction from the 2019 Dec timetable change through to the end of 2020. I cannot recall whether the process of mods from a signalling and train protection aspects differs from the two stocks, here are two excerpts for an application to the ORR for exemption from certain legislation earlier this year which makes me think so: |
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Post by silenthunter on Oct 4, 2019 19:27:32 GMT
The 387s also need refurbishing to make them more akin to the 332s that currently operate HEX. The 387/3s of GatEx won't cut the mustard on a premium service like HEX - frankly they don't even do it for Gatwick.
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Post by spsmiler on Oct 4, 2019 22:32:19 GMT
I think some people are mixing up 378's with 387's - absolutely the 378's longitudinal seating would not be welcome on the HeX service!
The 387's however have a very different seating layout - and include some 2 + 2 around tables
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Post by Chris L on Oct 5, 2019 1:05:18 GMT
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Post by Chris L on Oct 5, 2019 7:39:44 GMT
I was lucky enough to be invited to have a look at the Crossrail areas of Farringdon station yesterday.
Entry was via the Barbican entrance which looks very good.
The escalators were working and the incline lift is complete.
The station is virtually complete and is most impressive.
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Post by Deep Level on Oct 5, 2019 11:32:11 GMT
The 387s also need refurbishing to make them more akin to the 332s that currently operate HEX. The 387/3s of GatEx won't cut the mustard on a premium service like HEX - frankly they don't even do it for Gatwick. I've seen competed CL387s at Reading whilst on a recent trip to Didcot and I've seen one at Ilford although of course these were just from the outside and could have very much been just the outside. It would be interesting to see then if it's done in time for December and at which point trains will stop terminating at H&H, would also be nice to see some those 7 car trains come back to East London at some point so we can say bye to the CL315s! |
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Post by Chris L on Oct 5, 2019 11:56:12 GMT
The 387s also need refurbishing to make them more akin to the 332s that currently operate HEX. The 387/3s of GatEx won't cut the mustard on a premium service like HEX - frankly they don't even do it for Gatwick. I've seen competed CL387s at Reading whilst on a recent trip to Didcot and I've seen one at Ilford although of course these were just from the outside and could have very much been just the outside. It would be interesting to see then if it's done in time for December and at which point trains will stop terminating at H&H, would also be nice to see some those 7 car trains come back to East London at some point so we can say bye to the CL315s! Some more 9 car trains are being reduced to 7 cars to replace the 315s. |
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Post by alpinejohn on Oct 12, 2019 18:41:35 GMT
This did not go well ... www.constructionenquirer.com/2019/10/11/dust-blunder-during-bond-street-air-quality-checks/It seems someone decided to turn on the main tunnel ventilation fans and as a result managed to kick up clouds of dust along the unfinished Bond Street platform worksite at precisely the time when a union representatives visit was taking place to assess whether dust levels in the workplace created unsafe working conditions. You really could not make this up. Given the current level of workforce angst, it looks like progress at Bond Street could become the critical path element holding up the core opening. |
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Post by Chris L on Oct 14, 2019 9:22:53 GMT
This did not go well ... www.constructionenquirer.com/2019/10/11/dust-blunder-during-bond-street-air-quality-checks/It seems someone decided to turn on the main tunnel ventilation fans and as a result managed to kick up clouds of dust along the unfinished Bond Street platform worksite at precisely the time when a union representatives visit was taking place to assess whether dust levels in the workplace created unsafe working conditions. You really could not make this up. Given the current level of workforce angst, it looks like progress at Bond Street could become the critical path element holding up the core opening. It has been announced that Bond Street will be non-stopped when services start running on the tunnel section. |
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Post by Chris L on Oct 15, 2019 8:06:24 GMT
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Post by jimbo on Oct 15, 2019 10:27:12 GMT
Sounds to me like the original staged opening, just delayed awaiting the central London tunnel stage! |
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Post by brooklynbound on Oct 16, 2019 12:16:00 GMT
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Post by goldenarrow on Oct 16, 2019 12:40:18 GMT
Mixture of speculation (at best) and a slight misunderstanding on the part of the writer. With regards to the penalty, I believe there are some meetings due to take place/going on with the Canary Wharf Group, although I don't know to what extent. Getting trains to reverse at Whitechapel from Essex towards S.E London won't bypass any of the issues that are currently giving the project grief. Several lines (MET, Northern, Central, Piccadilly, District) show diagrams of other branches of the line where there is no direct service (see below). 
Heathrow Terminal 4 Underground station by bowroaduk, on Flickr |
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Post by Chris L on Oct 16, 2019 14:24:48 GMT
Only by changing at Whitechapel which is shown by the layout of the diagram. |
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Post by Chris L on Oct 16, 2019 14:26:55 GMT
Mixture of speculation (at best) and a slight misunderstanding on the part of the writer. With regards to the penalty, I believe there are some meeting due to take place/going on with the Canary Wharf Group, although I don't know to what extent. Getting trains to reverse at Whitechapel from Essex towards S.E London won't bypass any of the issues that are currently giving the project grief. Several lines (MET, Northern, Central, Piccadilly, District) show diagrams of other branches of the line where there is no direct service (see below).
Heathrow Terminal 4 Underground station by bowroaduk, on Flickr Any meetings with Canary Wharf could get interesting in that there are possible counter claims for the materials they used for the station. |
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Post by xplaistow on Oct 16, 2019 15:17:44 GMT
The interesting thing about that Gidea Park sign is not so much the fact that it includes the Abbey Wood branch but rather that it also doesn't have anything beyond Liverpool Street. This seems to suggest that the sign-makers were being given mixed messages (i.e. they couldn't work out whether to show the completed network or just the current operation).
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Post by jimbo on Oct 16, 2019 19:00:00 GMT
From photo's in article, I notice there is a long way to go for step free access to trains from platforms! |
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Post by spsmiler on Oct 16, 2019 19:41:19 GMT
The interesting thing about that Gidea Park sign is not so much the fact that it includes the Abbey Wood branch but rather that it also doesn't have anything beyond Liverpool Street. This seems to suggest that the sign-makers were being given mixed messages (i.e. they couldn't work out whether to show the completed network or just the current operation). But.... and its a big but most of the sign is actually blank! Shenfield station is near the top of the sign, there is enough space below Liverpool Street to add the rest of the route to Reading! You need to scroll down to near the bottom of the 'hydeparknow' webpage and see the photo of the map next to a Class 315 train. Below I am hotlinking directly to that image, but (with copyright in mind) I am also adding a clickable link in case our mods would prefer that the image was not directly visible here.  hydeparknow.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/IMG_0635.jpg |
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Post by rincew1nd on Oct 16, 2019 20:38:37 GMT
But.... and its a big but most of the sign is actually blank! Shenfield station is near the top of the sign, there is enough space below Liverpool Street to add the rest of the route to Reading! You need to scroll down to near the bottom of the 'hydeparknow' webpage and see the photo of the map next to a Class 315 train. Below I am hotlinking directly to that image, but (with copyright in mind) I am also adding a clickable link in case our mods would prefer that the image was not directly visible here. <<image>> hydeparknow.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/IMG_0635.jpgThat image somehow looks like it has had the signage edited in, just look at the top of the sign! Admin comment: Linking to an original image and crediting it is fine. Rehosting it without credit would not be. |
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Post by goldenarrow on Oct 16, 2019 20:41:01 GMT
spsmiler , I’m looking at the reflective image of that sign at Gidea Pk. It’s looks like that is some kind of vinyl/sticker has been placed on that sign as the shimmer given off the side of the sign is that of Vitruvius Enamel whilst that of the frontage is more like tracing paper. Also, I believe that the design standard specify that there should be an arrow for those line diagrams although I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s another design rule ejected into the ether for Liz.
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Post by spsmiler on Oct 17, 2019 20:56:31 GMT
spsmiler , I’m looking at the reflective image of that sign at Gidea Pk. It’s looks like that is some kind of vinyl/sticker has been placed on that sign as the shimmer given off the side of the sign is that of Vitruvius Enamel whilst that of the frontage is more like tracing paper. Also, I believe that the design standard specify that there should be an arrow for those line diagrams although I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s another design rule ejected into the ether for Liz. I seem to recall that this is what was done at Highbury & Islington when the East London Line section had opened but services to Clapham Junction had not yet commenced. |
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Post by Deep Level on Oct 18, 2019 6:35:06 GMT
Mixture of speculation (at best) and a slight misunderstanding on the part of the writer. With regards to the penalty, I believe there are some meetings due to take place/going on with the Canary Wharf Group, although I don't know to what extent. Getting trains to reverse at Whitechapel from Essex towards S.E London won't bypass any of the issues that are currently giving the project grief. Several lines (MET, Northern, Central, Piccadilly, District) show diagrams of other branches of the line where there is no direct service (see below).
Heathrow Terminal 4 Underground station by bowroaduk, on Flickr I could be wrong but I think that the point that the writer was trying to make was that the map only goes as far as Liverpool Street which suggests that it's not the final version (as of course this would run to Reading) so the addition of the Abbey Wood branch is an odd one as you'd assume this would be added with the rest of the line. It would be useful if they could get Liverpool Street low level operational (unless there's no way to reverse?) then they could get the High Level platform works done. |
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Post by Chris M on Oct 18, 2019 7:32:52 GMT
Based on Carto Metro the only reversing options are trailing crossovers immediately west of Whitechapel and a shortish distance east of TCR. It seems very unlikely these would be able to cope with any volume of traffic.
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Post by Chris L on Oct 18, 2019 8:09:01 GMT
Based on Carto Metro the only reversing options are trailing crossovers immediately west of Whitechapel and a shortish distance east of TCR. It seems very unlikely these would be able to cope with any volume of traffic. Similar line diagrams are installed on the Northern line southbound platforms to show that you need to change at Camden Town for the other branch. They do not suggest that trains run from Edgware to High Barnet. Different layouts convey where there is a junction as on the District, Central, Met etc. The same is true of the diagrams already installed in the tunnel sections of Crossrail which show Reading/Heathrow and Shenfield/Abbey Wood. |
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Post by Chris M on Oct 18, 2019 8:39:17 GMT
Chris L I think you quoted the wrong post?
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