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Post by spsmiler on Mar 7, 2020 23:34:28 GMT
So is 'Contactless' a brand? I thought it was a no-PIN-required card payment system. What is actually 'contactless' about it? It still contacts the Bank for authorisation. Contactless has become a generic term, although the way it works for Oyster is different to the banking style of payment systems. It is not supposed to perform any financial transactions at time of passing through ticket gates / boarding a bus / using free standing card readers. All that happens is that the reading of the card (location, time, etc) is noted. At the end of the day the journeys are tallied and a single charge to the payment account (bank / credit card etc) is levied. I am not sure about brand new contactless cards (etc). I recently received a brand new bank card (the older one had expired) and the first transaction would not work as a contacless card as it required me to prove ownership by entering the pin (personal identification number) into a card terminal. But this was done at a coffee shop and there was no problem - I had expected this to happen! I am not sure what would have happened had I tried to make my first 'use' at a station (or bus) card reader. I'm one of those people who have only ever used Oystercards when touching in / out. I thought that Oyster was going to be modified / rebooted with the oldest cards no longer working, and with the financial transaction element moved from the card to the central computers - but as yet this has not happened. |
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Mar 8, 2020 2:14:48 GMT
I recently received a brand new bank card (the older one had expired) and the first transaction would not work as a contacless card as it required me to prove ownership by entering the pin (personal identification number) into a card terminal. But this was done at a coffee shop and there was no problem - I had expected this to happen! I am not sure what would have happened had I tried to make my first 'use' at a station (or bus) card reader. My debit card also expired recently, and mine too required me to enter the pin on first use (I did this at the supermarket). Had you tried to use it as a contactless card the transaction would have been declined - I presume this is why my new card arrived almost 3 weeks before my old one expired. It's also worth noting that you periodically* need to confirm you are still in control of the card by entering the pin. The official line is that you will just need to enter your pin to authorise the contactless transaction, but in my experience the contactless payment has been declined but a chip-and-pin transaction immediately following has been successful. *It seems that this is either after spending a certain amount of money or a certain number of transactions since your last pin entry (or a combination of both), but the precise details are up to your card issuer. |
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Post by zbang on Mar 8, 2020 5:28:56 GMT
Just so I'm clear..... "contactless" is the same as "touchcard"? Has the little symbol of four curved lines? IME the card have to actually touch/contact the reader to work (same for a mobile with NFC, it's the "near" in Near Field Comm.).
Another case of calling long-wave light "blue" and hoping people buy it.
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class411
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Post by class411 on Mar 8, 2020 9:23:19 GMT
I’m not sure what the ‘contactless or not’ issue is here. LU tend to use their own version of the English language. Carriages are not carriages but 'cars' Articulated doesn't mean articulated, but articulated in such a way the there is one bogie under the junction between carriages. Using cards that have to contact the reader is called contactless, but not when it's the original style of contactless. It's all rather tiresome. |
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Post by John Tuthill on Mar 8, 2020 10:29:14 GMT
I’m not sure what the ‘contactless or not’ issue is here. LU tend to use their own version of the English language. Carriages are not carriages but 'cars' Articulated doesn't mean articulated, but articulated in such a way the there is one bogie under the junction between carriages. Using cards that have to contact the reader is called contactless, but not when it's the original style of contactless. It's all rather tiresome. 'Cars' goes back to Yerkes days. |
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Post by as1981 on Mar 8, 2020 13:51:40 GMT
The official line is that you will just need to enter your pin to authorise the contactless transaction, but in my experience the contactless payment has been declined but a chip-and-pin transaction immediately following has been successful. I've had that experience as well. I would think it's the software on certain terminals that can't request a pin for contactless transactions but I don't know.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Mar 8, 2020 14:07:24 GMT
'Cars' goes back to Yerkes days. Likewise "trucks" for bogies. "Articulated" simply means "jointed", a description which is met by any train made up of more than one vehicle (or even a single vehicle mounted on bogies). However, in a railway sense it does usually mean an arrangement in which wheelsets are shared between vehicles - examples are as diverse as Gresley's "quad art" sets, most modern trams, the DLR units, "Cartic" car-transporting wagons, and the original Eurostar units. The ability to walk between vehicles may, or may not, be a feature of such arrangements. (Gresley's Quad-Art and Quint Art sets were non-corridor compartment stock). In some systems such as the DLR and Croydon Tramlink, the entire unit is seen as one vehicle which bends in the middle, in others the individual bodies are considered to be separate and each have their own number (e.g Eurostar, Greater Anglia's "FLIRT" units) The term "articulation" is also used for steam locomotives with two or more coupled wheelsets able to pivot relative to each other (e.g. Mallets, Garrets, Fairlies). Although most modern diesel and electric locomotives have a similar arrangement to that of a Fairlie, they are not normally described as articulated. |
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Post by brigham on Mar 9, 2020 8:56:43 GMT
Does LU use the word 'articulated' to describe its rolling stock?
Mainstream railway jargon restricts 'articulated' to vehicles sharing a common wheelset. It's the same with road motors; a lorry and trailer combination is not the same as an articulated lorry.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Mar 9, 2020 13:39:58 GMT
We have discussed the pedantry of the term "articulated" with regards railway vehicles in the past, let's stick to discussing the Google deal eh?
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Post by spsmiler on Mar 11, 2020 21:31:23 GMT
I saw these today - at Tottenham Court Road (TCR) and Holborn!
At TCR I also noted a McDonalds advert on the same ticket gates.
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Post by metrider on Mar 12, 2020 7:09:02 GMT
Advertising needs to be kept away from essential parts of the system. This is a step too far....'. That says it all. I've no problem with the above seat advertising, or normal paper poster ads around stations. I winced a bit when stickers appeared on gate paddles and flat screen panels (do we really need to voluntarily consume more power and generate more heat underground?), and grimaced when stations and some roundels were temporarily branded. My first reaction when I came across this thread this morning was to check the date (to check that I'd not overslept by a few weeks and woke up on April 1st. Payment is an integral part of accessing the transport network, and whilst multiple payment options are always welcome, the choice of which to use should be up to the consumer, with no hidden strings attached (other than charges/caps etc where the technicalities of a method dictate or allow this) I've worked with IT and technology for around 45 years, and lean towards working with information security. Nothing is totally secure these days and there is far more covert commercial tracking than the average person on the street realises. I'm trying to stay away from talking about brands here but I must briefly make two mentions and a third comment. Firstly, based on my own deep knowledge, on Security grounds, the only contactless consumer device payment system I'd use is of the fruity brand (a number of technical reasons to say this, but this thread is not the place). Secondly, I'll not contribute payment and location history to the google data mines. Thirdly - Oyster does not involve having no option but to wave an expensive device or payment card around in a public place at a particular instant (and it actually processes an instant faster at the gate). I still use an Oyster card so that I can keep my bank cards securely zipped up inside my jacket and am in control of where I reveal my tech. |
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Post by stapler on Mar 13, 2020 13:34:48 GMT
Advertising needs to be kept away from essential parts of the system. This is a step too far....'. That says it all. I Payment is an integral part of accessing the transport network, and whilst multiple payment options are always welcome, the choice of which to use should be up to the consumer, with no hidden strings attached (other than charges/caps etc where the technicalities of a method dictate or allow this) ------------------------------------------------------------------- Save in Luxembourg, where train and bus travel is now free |
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Post by spsmiler on Mar 15, 2020 23:18:41 GMT
I've worked with IT and technology for around 45 years, and lean towards working with information security. Nothing is totally secure these days and there is far more covert commercial tracking than the average person on the street realises. I'm trying to stay away from talking about brands here but I must briefly make two mentions and a third comment. Firstly, based on my own deep knowledge, on Security grounds, the only contactless consumer device payment system I'd use is of the fruity brand (a number of technical reasons to say this, but this thread is not the place). Secondly, I'll not contribute payment and location history to the google data mines. Thirdly - Oyster does not involve having no option but to wave an expensive device or payment card around in a public place at a particular instant (and it actually processes an instant faster at the gate). I still use an Oyster card so that I can keep my bank cards securely zipped up inside my jacket and am in control of where I reveal my tech. The present generation is happy to trade security for convenience. Madness! I too only use Oyster. No bank cards and no expensive hand held computers for all to see. Have a bank card stolen and for a few hours someone else could go shopping at yours (or the bank's) expense! Even if the bank does pick up the tab its still a hassle to sort it all out - and ends up being paid for by everyone who pays bank account fees. I suppose that I could, if I had no other choice, use a wristband type device or a small portable key fob reader that has been placed inside a pocket. Almost certainly I would have done this with Oystercards had such an option been available - it exists in Hong Kong, why not London too? Yes I know we have bPay devices like this but they still create an 'easy access' route to a bank account. I have a jacket that includes a small zipped pocket at the end of one of its sleeves and sometimes I place my Oystercard in that. Revenue inspectors don't like this and always insist on seeing the card. Ah, the late Paul Corfield would almost certainly have commented on my message. |
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Post by spsmiler on May 22, 2020 21:28:07 GMT
The last message on this thread was on 15th March, at which time the card reader touch pads were being updated to reflect the sponsorship. The updated pads were predominately white in colour, and of course included logos (etc) from the sponsoring business.
Today it is 22nd May - about 9 weeks later and despite being such a relatively short period of time a lot has changed. I'll mention the root cause of this (virus pandemic lockdown which most people staying at home / not travelling) but only briefly as is required to explain why things have changed.
The point of this message is to bring this thread more up to date.
On 11th May I was in the Gants Hill area and went to the station ticket hall to collect a free newspaper, whilst there I noticed a ticket gate that was closed off (out of use) and took a photo. Today I was looking through my photo files & folders (for something else) and noticed that the touch pads seen in this photo are yellow / traditional TfL. This implies that the one year sponsorship deal ended very prematurely.
Am I correct?
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Post by Dstock7080 on May 22, 2020 21:50:27 GMT
This implies that the one year sponsorship deal ended very prematurely. Am I correct? I’m sure the rollout of the Google labels was halted before completion due to the current crisis. Much advertising on the Underground has remained intact from early-March, therefore there are theatre productions, cinema releases, sporting events all trapped in time as they haven’t been changed. |
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Post by phil on May 22, 2020 22:16:32 GMT
Advertising needs to be kept away from essential parts of the system. This is a step too far. I remember a TV series in the Thatcher years, set in the near future. A van said 'Police plc.', with a notice below 'To advertise in this space, call ...'.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Aug 25, 2020 11:18:54 GMT
This implies that the one year sponsorship deal ended very prematurely. Am I correct? I’m sure the rollout of the Google labels was halted before completion due to the current crisis. Much advertising on the Underground has remained intact from early-March, therefore there are theatre productions, cinema releases, sporting events all trapped in time as they haven’t been changed. Application of the Google labels resumed at stations yesterday. |
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Post by Chris L on Aug 25, 2020 15:35:25 GMT
I’m sure the rollout of the Google labels was halted before completion due to the current crisis. Much advertising on the Underground has remained intact from early-March, therefore there are theatre productions, cinema releases, sporting events all trapped in time as they haven’t been changed. Application of the Google labels resumed at stations yesterday. The material used is awful. A lot have split leaving a blank panel on the reader. |
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Post by spsmiler on Aug 25, 2020 20:27:49 GMT
I’m sure the rollout of the Google labels was halted before completion due to the current crisis. Much advertising on the Underground has remained intact from early-March, therefore there are theatre productions, cinema releases, sporting events all trapped in time as they haven’t been changed. Application of the Google labels resumed at stations yesterday. I saw some GPay touchpads yesterday - the only two central London stations which I used yesterday were Holborn and Great Portland Street, so it much have been at one or both of these. I was out again today, being taken 'all around the houses' at Kings Cross (some exits were closed) and Oxford Circus. I think it was at the latter that I saw these, and as a reprise to what I saw in early March (this year) I also saw an advert for McDonalds on the ticket gate - to be pedantic it was on the body of the gate machinery and beyond the paddles which open if one has a valid ticket / smartcard / whatever. I do not know if this is a fresh deal with a different financial package, or the same deal resuscitated from hibernation. Either way, whilst the funds would have been 'much needed' back earlier this year I can only imagine that they will be 'even more welcome' today. The word 'lifeline' comes to mind. |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Sept 22, 2020 10:31:28 GMT
Application of the Google labels resumed at stations yesterday. I saw some GPay touchpads yesterday - the only two central London stations which I used yesterday were Holborn and Great Portland Street, so it much have been at one or both of these. I do not know if this is a fresh deal with a different financial package, or the same deal resuscitated from hibernation. Either way, whilst the funds would have been 'much needed' back earlier this year I can only imagine that they will be 'even more welcome' today. The word 'lifeline' comes to mind. Application of the Google labels concluded over the weekend, they will remain for 12 months. As i indicated up-thread the original deal was paused because of of Covid-19. |
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Post by spsmiler on Sept 22, 2020 18:57:34 GMT
wow, its taken a long time to apply them everywhere!
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Post by Dstock7080 on Sept 1, 2021 12:13:14 GMT
The Google Pay sticker promotion on all LU gatelines has been extended until at least March 2022
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Post by AndrewPSSP on Sept 2, 2021 21:49:48 GMT
Didn't manage to take a picture of it but something amusing I saw at Victoria the other day were the Google Pay stickers on the readers, and Apple Pay adverts on the paddles!
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