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Post by xtmw on Jul 18, 2022 8:28:21 GMT
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jul 18, 2022 9:29:57 GMT
I'm going to amend the thread title so it can relate to this but does anyone know what speeds the trains will be at during the TSRs? Central would probably be equivalent to other Lines, sub-surface blanket 25mph in all areas. |
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Post by stapler on Jul 18, 2022 10:02:35 GMT
Most of the Central is, of course, above ground, so expansion problems, for both conductor and running rails, will be akin to NR. Would there be different limits for tunnel and open sections?
TFL website currently stating
#Central Line: Severe delays due to heat related speed restrictions.
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DWS
every second count's
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Post by DWS on Jul 18, 2022 10:43:13 GMT
The Northern line has a good service, true only a small amount is not in tunnel, so how come that part has no speed restrictions ?
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Post by xtmw on Jul 18, 2022 13:03:49 GMT
Apparently the Central line was reaching around 10mph in the open sections!
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Post by A60stock on Jul 18, 2022 13:59:52 GMT
What service is being run on the Met today? I can't understand why it's the only line with a suspension when Baker St to Aldgate is mostly under the covers. With the H and C also suspended, you've only got the Circle line covering that area, and surely thats absolute madness during the rush hour?!
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jul 18, 2022 15:16:54 GMT
What service is being run on the Met today? I can't understand why it's the only line with a suspension when Baker St to Aldgate is mostly under the covers. With the H and C also suspended, you've only got the Circle line covering that area, and surely thats absolute madness during the rush hour?! Amersham-Harrow Chesham-Rickmansworth Watford-Baker Street Uxbridge-Baker Street. |
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Post by spsmiler on Jul 18, 2022 17:47:51 GMT
Central seemed normal Gants Hill - just outside Leytonstone; then we stopped. After that we were on a 'go slow'.
Jubilee Stratford (platform 13!) - Canning Town seemed slower that usual.
DLR had triple unit trains - I went to London City Airport.
On my return I took the DLR to West Ham. At the upper level both LU and C2C platforms were crowded. I caught a C2C to Barking as it was the next train. As expected it ran slower than usual.
At Barking I saw eastbound District line trains opening their doors on both sides and westbound trains going to Olympia.
I have no idea if the LO train to Barking Riverside was travelling slowly as I've never travelled that route before!
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Post by will on Jul 18, 2022 18:33:24 GMT
I noticed Lambeth North has closed due to heat related issues. What could be the cause of this? Thanks  |
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Post by MoreToJack on Jul 18, 2022 19:13:49 GMT
What service is being run on the Met today? I can't understand why it's the only line with a suspension when Baker St to Aldgate is mostly under the covers. With the H and C also suspended, you've only got the Circle line covering that area, and surely thats absolute madness during the rush hour?! There’s a blanket 25mph speed restriction on the Met. Given the length of the line, the fact the vast majority of it is above ground and that there’s a limited number of trains and drivers, I think it’s fairly obvious why the service is only going to Baker Street. You would simply run out of trains if you were losing them to Aldgate for up to an hour. Let’s not forget that TfL has issued advice to not travel unless necessary. On days like today I don’t think people have a leg to stand on if their journeys are disrupted. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jul 18, 2022 19:16:39 GMT
I noticed Lambeth North has closed due to heat related issues. What could be the cause of this? Thanks Possible short working because of speed limits elsewhere on the line. Or maybe the lifts con't reach the top level because the cables have expandsed  |
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Post by jamesb on Jul 18, 2022 19:43:25 GMT
I noticed today that some doors on the central line seem to speed up in the heat when they close - the single leaf door I was next to almost slammed shut (conversely they shut much more slowly in cold weather).
I wondered if it is something to do with the temperature affecting the pressure of air in the pneumatic closing mechanism?
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Post by cudsn15 on Jul 18, 2022 19:44:54 GMT
...and it's only going to be worse tomorrow.
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Post by d7666 on Jul 18, 2022 21:47:32 GMT
I noticed Lambeth North has closed due to heat related issues. What could be the cause of this? Thanks The Sun.   |
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Post by d7666 on Jul 18, 2022 21:50:05 GMT
What service is being run on the Met today? I can't understand why it's the only line with a suspension when Baker St to Aldgate is mostly under the covers. With the H and C also suspended, you've only got the Circle line covering that area, and surely thats absolute madness during the rush hour?! The over arching travel advice is Do Not Travel. EDIT oops just seen someone else made the same comment already. |
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Post by spsmiler on Jul 18, 2022 23:23:50 GMT
I'll be staying at home on Tuesday!
I forgot to say this earlier but whilst out today I twice saw people riding bikes on station platforms - typically between the yellow line and platform edge.
Then there was the young lady who decided to crouch down and search through her bag for something - again in the area between the yellow line and the platform edge.
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Post by Tubeboy on Jul 19, 2022 9:08:13 GMT
I noticed Lambeth North has closed due to heat related issues. What could be the cause of this? Thanks The lift machine chamber was very hot, so the lifts failed. |
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castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
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Post by castlebar on Jul 19, 2022 10:48:33 GMT
When trains had windows that could be opened, they didn't need to carry energy gobbling air conditioning
The irony!!
Thus it added to the problem it is allegedly designed to help solve
I was on a bus in Sussex on Saturday, and there was a notice on two of the windows "These windows are permanently open for the comfort of passengers"
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Post by spsmiler on Jul 19, 2022 11:17:04 GMT
When trains that windows that could be opened, they didn't need to carry energy gobbling air conditioning The irony!! That lesson has been learnt - albeit on a certain style of London bus that was built with an air-chill system which was not as effective as the bus designers had hoped but (because of the weight) not a proper air-conditioning system. These buses were later retrofitted with a few windows, albeit not at the front of the upper deck as per some historic bus designs. A few days ago I was on an Overground train where the air-conditioning was either not working or set 'too high' in one of the carriages. Thankfully I was able to relocate to an adjacent carriage. I have no idea if the windows on these trains can be opened. |
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Post by philthetube on Jul 19, 2022 13:39:19 GMT
When trains had windows that could be opened, they didn't need to carry energy gobbling air conditioning The irony!! Thus it added to the problem it is allegedly designed to help solve I was on a bus in Sussex on Saturday, and there was a notice on two of the windows "These windows are permanently open for the comfort of passengers" Have you travelled on a train with no air con today, I think you might change your mind on that one. |
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Post by stapler on Jul 19, 2022 14:31:36 GMT
The worst offender in stock designs was undoubtedly the D78s when first introduced. They made changing at Mile End to the Central a positive experience.
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Post by d7666 on Jul 19, 2022 15:57:05 GMT
When trains had windows that could be opened, they didn't need to carry energy gobbling air conditioning The irony!! Thus it added to the problem it is allegedly designed to help solve I was on a bus in Sussex on Saturday, and there was a notice on two of the windows "These windows are permanently open for the comfort of passengers" Have you travelled on a train with no air con today, I think you might change your mind on that one. Yeh, as a Thameslink commuter (well not today !!!) 700s are a vast improvement over 319s in many respects especially air-con. Much as sitting over English Electric legacy motors in a 319 is crankworthy anorak entertainment, non air con trains in the current temperature ranges are very poor. Those with rose tinted glasses might have much travel experience on GB trains with opening wiondows - but not, certainly not, in the current tempertues. No-one has, exactly because the temperature records are being progressively beaten each heatwave. Applies to all modes. |
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Post by d7666 on Jul 19, 2022 15:58:03 GMT
When trains had windows that could be opened, they didn't need to carry energy gobbling air conditioning The irony!! Thus it added to the problem it is allegedly designed to help solve I was on a bus in Sussex on Saturday, and there was a notice on two of the windows "These windows are permanently open for the comfort of passengers" That says more about poor design of the bus than anything else. But ITYF re. air-con on buses in general, the size and weight and energy consumption of an air-con unit to effectively deal with a typical GB bus across the entire temperature range *and* deal with the door open close cycle is somewhat larger than practical. Hence non air-con buses are perceived to be better than air-con buses - there is the psychological effect of a hot air breeze from outside seems to do something than being sealed in a cooler box. Air-con tends to be percevied to be working better on coaches as they have a far lower door open/close cycle and the box remains closed for much longer periods. And I have some experience of all this as part of my engineering background as a NBC engineering trainee was with Leyland Nationals (the first ones; not 'phase 2's) as they came up for their first heavy docks which included air-con unit attention and what we did and did not need to overhaul / remove / enchance / replace. OK one might argue that NBC non air con LNs of the late 1970s are a somewhat out of date example, but I suggest the principle still applies, it was large enough kit as it was. |
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Post by jamesb on Jul 19, 2022 20:04:16 GMT
I apologise in advance if this is a question with an obvious answer, but what is the main purpose of the heat related speed restrictions?
Is it to mitigate the impact of a train running over a track defect?
Or is it to allow the driver to monitor the track ahead and brake the train in advance of a track defect? (EDIT i.e. is a buckled rail something that is quite dramatic and obvious to see in advance, so a temporary speed restriction would allow the train to be stopped before running over it)?
Or is it to prevent the train from damaging the rails by hammering over them at full line speed when they are more prone to damage because they are hot?
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Post by spsmiler on Jul 19, 2022 20:46:39 GMT
I apologise in advance if this is a question with an obvious answer, but what is the main purpose of the heat related speed restrictions? Is it to mitigate the impact of a train running over a track defect? Or is it to allow the driver to monitor the track ahead and brake the train in advance of a track defect? Or is it to prevent the train from damaging the rails by hammering over them at full line speed when they are more prone to damage because they are hot? James, my understanding: In places the track has been expanding lengthwise beyond the expansion limits so that instead it buckles (there are short sections with kinks in) and at high speed this would potentially cause it to derail / crash. At low speed it will feel somewhat like being on an aircraft that has hit severe air turbulence. Especially passengers who are standing / walking will be thrown about inside the train and very likely hurt / injured. Possibly severely |
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Post by spsmiler on Jul 19, 2022 22:57:30 GMT
The second tweet image (filmed somewhere in Europe) shows a heat related kink in the rails twitter.com/rail_arri/ status/1549039421525458945 |
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Post by Chris M on Jul 19, 2022 23:37:12 GMT
From my understanding from reading news reports, the speed restrictions are intended to reduce the forces imparted on the track (which iirc increase with the square of speed) which make them less likely to be damaged but also reduce the severity from any damage that is encountered. The first image in spsmiler's tweet is from Donostia (Basque)/San Sebastián (Spanish) in north-east Spain, near the French border. The second image is from the same country (the train on the line with the kink is operated by CAF), possibly the same incident but I don't know. |
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Post by brigham on Jul 20, 2022 7:43:07 GMT
Is that the famous Basque metre-gauge, or are we just further away?
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Post by billbedford on Jul 20, 2022 9:02:37 GMT
Those with rose tinted glasses might have much travel experience on GB trains with opening wiondows - but not, certainly not, in the current tempertues. No-one has, exactly because the temperature records are being progressively beaten each heatwave. Applies to all modes. Come now, it is 46 years since we had temperatures anything like the recent ones, and I don't expect there will be anything similar for another 40-50 years. Weather proofing trains becauce of a few days of warmer than average temperatures, seems to me, akin to mandating permanant snow ploughs because we occasionally get 100mm of snow. OTOH it can be argued that ubiquitous air conditioning adds to the Heat Island Effect and thus the incease in outdoor temperatures. |
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Post by stapler on Jul 20, 2022 9:32:46 GMT
It is certainly not 46 years since we had such high temperatures; it's 2 or 3 - and early August 1990 was just as searing. 1976 was long and hot, but that was quite exceptional. This awful heat has now to be regarded as ***endemic***. What can be engineered out practically and economically should be engineered out. As far as LU is concerned, William Bridges Adams (who invented the fishplate) could go down to his local station (Loughton) and recognise the p/way architecture instantly, after 166 years...couldn't he?
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